Exactly what Brigham Young said it means
All good questions. I’m particularly intrigued about the apostasy but no Mormons will answer my questions about it.
Even if the Church did commit apostasy (which it didn’t) why should I believe Joseph Smith over other restorationist denominations?
Joe Smith was a known liar. You shouldn’t believe him.
My favorite of his lies:
“…What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.” (Joseph Smith - who at the time had secretly taken at least 33 plural wives)
Missionaries are trained a certain way. I’ve spoken to quite a few and when you ask them something that they have no idea about such as why if there was an apostasy do they accept a Canon decided on by council’s in the 4th century do they trust it. I always jokingly tell them they should accept the hugely popular Shepherd of Hermas because it promotes further revelation by angels; or the Apocalypse of Peter which promises eternal salvation for all at the end of time. This is more what they believe in actually.
I’d have more respect for them and other Apostasy groups like Jehovah’s Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists if they chose their own New Testament. The extra canonical books are all there I own a collection of them.
I’ve read the BOM at least a dozen times. I’ve read their other scriptures as well. A few years ago I read the BOM over a five week period and prayed about it with real intent. God told me it was a 19th century novel and to run from it. I have only read bits and pieces of it ever since.
Same. The missionaries tell me I’m not trying hard enough.
The truth is I studied theology and Church History. They really thrive on people who may have had a bad experience with religion or are in a bad spot or frankly aren’t to educated. The Book of Mormon is historically inmacurate. You won’t find any archeological evidence. Animals which didn’t arrive until the 1500s when the Spanish brought them over appear in the book. The book uses weapons which weren’t created yet. The book uses " It came to pass" so repetitively it makes me want to vomit at times, it steals verses from say the letters of Paul which in accordance with the timeline of the book were written centuries before Paul was even alive. The book also is eerily similar to the novel View of the Hebrews, written five years earlier.
The Book of Abrhaham, which I believe is in D&C was translated by papyri bought from a travelling circus. He translated this ancient Egyptian into the Book of Abraham. Modern Egyptologists have translated it and it is nothing more than a funeral rite for someone who died and alludes to Osiris , an Egyptian god.
Joseph Smith was a deceiver who didn’t realize someday people who be able to catch his lies. Most Mormons are very ignorant about it. Trusting the Spirit? They love that verse from James there about asking for wisdom. Funny they reject the deuteroconicals which Luther didn’t like yet accept James which Luther tried to take out calling it a “load of straw”.
It also goes against the Book is Mormon see Jacob 2: 23-24. Once again Joseph goes against the personal revelation he received in the beginning. And fell for a lie perpetuated of old to cover up his sins. Just like David and Jacob and Abraham.
I believe that Joseph received inspiration to write that novel just like any other inspired author. I think it was given to him for personal revelation which in the end he failed to follow.
I believe there were somethings the Catholic Church did that were wrong at points in its history that made people feel the need to cut ties with it and worship else where. I myself am encountering some of those same feelings as I attempt to become catholic. I have so far been asked to stop attending RCIA. I however don’t believe that God totally abandoned his people and authority had to be restored.
Of course the Church had made errors in the past. We are human. However the Holy Spirit never stopped guiding it. Notice when it has went astray a certain saint comes along to put it back on the straight path. It doesn’t mean going and making your own church.
Not to mention the Mormons have their own apostasy! I mentioned the irony to missionaries once. They claim after the Apostles died all these wrong beliefs appeared etc. Yet what happened when Joseph Smith died? There was an apostasy. It split into 2 different groups and to this day there’s the LDS in Salt Lake City and the one in Independence Missouri. Like how can you go talking about apostasy when it is right in that church too. I told them God must have abandoned us again. They gave up on me lol.
I couldn’t agree more. If all that JS taught at the end, that got him killed was true and necessary for “exhaultation” then the church is fallen. Or you could say when the Mormon church got really lost the Holy Spirit May have helped those Mormon leaders to get it closer on track. I got involved in a Bible study a couple weeks ago with missionaries when my kids were at activities. I was sitting in the car of the a member of the relief society presidency. I have not been to the RS meetings in about an year and a half. She was saying that she needed me. She didn’t know why. So we were having a powerful discussion of the Bible. Well the missionaries begged/ ordered us to come to their bible study by their calling as missionaries. I told them they didn’t want me to do that. Well it was a room with 4-5 sets of missionaries the two of us that had been talking. There was one other active member there. I totally called them out on their apostasy doctrine and their insistence that the Mormon church was the way back to God. I told them if they were called of God to be His representatives they better make sure they know who God really is and His true nature. They were all struck dumb for a moment. I said “you told me to come. I didn’t want to. This is what you get”. LOL not real sure I will be invited back.
Just a minor correction. The Book of Abraham is in the Pearl of Great Price. Joseph Smith History, his fictitious novel about the first vision and restoration of the church is also in the POGP.
Thanks for the clarification. I am not a Mormon, I have read the Book of Mormon, but in the same way I read The Epic of Gilgamesh or Paradise Lost. Just as a work of importance. However after the Book of Mormon in their further Canon I don’t know much.
I’m not a Mormon either but I find their history to be fascinating.
I find all religious movements to be fascinating. I’ve had an interest in NRMs lately.
Isn’t there a way to disagree without being disagreeable?
I am not sure wether they agreed or not. No one knew what to say.