Let's talk about Mormonism


#423

The leader of the class. He is a retired deacon. I never said anything in class to question what was being taught. I met with him alone to discuss rebaptism and how I felt like I was being forced to reflect what I felt God had already done in and through me. I said I was willing to talk to anyone I needed to find an exemption to the rule that excludes Mormon baptism as acceptible. After reading the requirements of an acceptable baptism I felt certain I had meet them. I became emotional when I was told that is absolutely not possible. This is what I was told in the email. “Your baptism is not recognized by the Catholic Church because the Mormon understanding of the Holy Trinity is not consistent with Catholic teaching. This is not going to change…I feel it is best for both of us at this time that you do not return to RCIA. I wish you well and God’s blessing” so I just emailed back.”understood”. What I wanted most from RCIA was to know what was official Catholic teaching. Being introduced to the CCC and the Catholic answers forum has given me the tools I needed. I have another Catholic friend who has invited me to attend her Parrish. I am in the process of deciding what to do.


#424

You will find that the missionaries know no theology. Their answer will always be to pray about it.


#425

Not great logic. I’m reminded of this Bible verse.


If I was to base my views on what feels right instead of what is right, I think we’d all be in a lot of trouble.


#426

You do realise if a Catholic were to become a Mormon they push you getting baptised by " the proper authority" and Catholic baptisms are not valid. So why exactly is it a shock that Catholics don’t accept those baptisms? Any group that is non trinitarian would the baptism be invalid. JW too.


#427

I prayed about it and told them the BOM wasn’t true and was a fraud and written by a con man and they said Satan was replying to me and to try again. So I did and I got the answer so then they wanted to pray with me so I let them and after that one of the girls was like " I definitely felt the Spirit confirm the BOM is true, did you feel it?" And I was like “No it’s still not true”. They stood there looking at me like I was something they never were trained to encounter .


#428

It is a ruling from the Roman Curia, that Mormon baptisms aren’t valid. It isn’t a ruling that a single Catholic, anywhere, can just ignore because of your feelings.

The intent in your heart may have been Trinitarian, which is a consideration, but it wasn’t the intent of the person who baptized you. Or the intent of the LDS Church. It isn’t all about how you feel, personally.

You don’t have to agree with the retired deacon, regarding leaving RCIA. You can reply with what you’ve said here, that you want to learn. Save the question of baptism for when you are ready. If you RCIA deacon replies with stick around, then do. If not, then go to a different parish. Not all RCIA’s are alike. Which isn’t a bad thing. Each parish has its own “flavor”.

RCIA is a process, not a two semester course where the Sacraments are your graduation present. Take the time you need to learn and understand Catholic teachings.


#429

Often God asks for our submission. The reality is an LDS baptism is not a valid Christian baptism. In asking to join the Catholic Church you are asking to become a Christian. That is why there is a distinction between many Protestant baptisms being accepted as valid and the LDS as not. The LDS are not a Christian faith so how could their baptism be valid?

I understand your point in that the words said are the same but for the LDS those words mean something much different than what Christianity has defined them.

If you are able to attend RCIA at another parish, please remember this difference. No Catholic parish will accept an LDS baptism as valid.


#430

There’s a probability that parish shopping around long enough will root out someone who would perform a conditional baptism.


#431

I guess it’s possible.:slightly_smiling_face:

It would be a sad thing if a parish did though.


#432

Mormonism was started by a guy who used divination to find silver mines or find the letters to write out the BOM. If you have the time, there’s interesting information on the internet to read concerning the origins of the BOM, which is very likely to have been largely plagiarized from a book by Solomon Spaulding, which unfortunately has been lost. His extant book concerns Romans visiting the New World and his lost book attempts to explain the origins of the Natives (and mounds) as being the lost tribes of Israel.

Anyways, so the fact that the Mormons are resorting to divination in a sense, “feelings”, to judge whether something is true or not, is entirely consistent with the origins and development of this cult. Only in America can a religion like Mormonism thrive and grow into what it is today, something that has enough power and money to now influence world events. It’s a thoroughly American religion!


#433

I totally understand that perspective. I had no problem consenting to Baptism till I was taught that they accepted other christian baptism. If they rejected all other baptisms out of a claim of authority I would have no problem consenting. It is the bigotry that I am opposed to.

I was taught through Catholics that a person can start on a path to God anywhere and come to know truth. I believe that doctrine. God can reach people anywhere. Even from a Mormon family that has a heritage clear back to personally knowing Joseph Smith. I want my lagitamacy recognized as much as any other person who claims Christianity.

Complete rejection of a concept is fine. Picking and choosing who is God’s without truly knowing them, is Bigotry. It needs to be called out in all its forms even in religion and faith practices. I am being judged not by who I am and my relationship to God. I am being judged for what family situation God placed me in, not anything I did or didn’t do.

It’s really a judgement on God and what He can and cannot do. I refuse to judge God and to treat lightly what He has done in and through me. When the men of this world stop saying what God is and what God isn’t and what God can do and what God can’t do, that will be a great day for this world. I am speaking to Mormons and Catholics alike, along with all others who discriminate claiming to do it in god’s name.


#434

Joseph Smith took his truth from all sorts of sources. Including popular culture of his day , including the masons etc. He was a Unitarian Universalist by birth. His father and uncles and I believe even grand father was such.


#435

It is not a bigotry to determine what constitutes a valid baptism. The LDS are not a Christian organization, never have been, never will be. Therefore their baptism is not one of Christianity.

You are correct in that you had no choice in the matter as a child, but you do have a choice now. This is not a personal attack on you, rather it’s a desire to see that you are baptized into the Body of Christ.


#436

WOW!!! I mean I understand the baptism not being recognized but not being welcomed to return to rcia is shocking to me. I thought rcia was open to all who wanted to know more about Catholicism. And it’s only October which is fairly early in the rcia process. Have you spoken to the priest?


#437

They hold to an infinite regression of gods and worlds, which is nonsensical, in my mind. No first Cause, no Originator of all that exists.

Compare the LDS to a possible predecessor or inspiration: Swedenborgianism (LDS of course, denies this).


#438

It is a door that is currently shut. I am making no demands that it open. If God wants me to walk through that door he will make it so. If not I am content attending my women’s bible study at the local Catholic Church and worshiping and praising the things the Catholic Church teaches that I can’t at the Mormon church and just be happy that God is providing for my needs. I can attend mass and worship as a non-catholic. I can study the catechism outside of RCIA. I can take communion anywhere and view it through the perspective of the Eucharist so no privledges are being denied me by God. So it is all good because God is good and God rules.


#439

God will make it so but not by acquiescing to your will, you MUST acquiesce to His will. If this is still about your baptism, then you must really spend some time in prayer about what the truth is. As far as the response from the RCIA director, I can see his point even if he could have handled it better. I’m not so sure other RCIA directors wouldn’t have felt similar. By this I mean based on some of what you have posted here, using some of the same arguments, he may have felt it better for the whole class to ask you not to come back until you were able to accept Catholic teaching on matters such as baptism.

You may receive communion at another church but it is in no way a substitution for the Eucharist. The Eucharist is the body, blood, soul, & divinity of Jesus Christ. For many other churches, the bread & grape juice remain so and merely symbolize the sacrifice on the cross.

God will not deny you anything, but you can make it so you deny God’s gifts to you.


#440

Thank you for your words of caution. I agree with the decision they made concerning RCIA. I took it as a clear sign from God that that was God’s will that I stop attending. I don’t have hard feelings about. I was just shocked and kind of taken back by it. I also felt it was important to acknowledge it on this forum since I previously stated that I was attending RCIA with the intent to become catholic and now that is not the case nor do I believe it will be in the near future if ever. I went there because I was directed by God to, because He wanted me to understand him from another set of perspectives that I was already beginning to understand through my study of what I will call the Mormon cannon of scriptures. He has delivered me to a place where I can communicate my beliefs without reproach and this was the desire of my heart and God in His grace and mercy has granted that. I really was not learning anything I did not already know in RCIA. However the Bible study I attend is teaching me much and opened a door to the fellowship I have longed for.


#441

The Book of Mormon and lectures on faith describe the trinity near identical to Catholics. This is where my knowledge of such things was born. My husband was born as a member of the Assemblies of God faith. He has not given up his trinitarian view of same substance and oneness of God when he joined the LDS faith. Many of the things people cling to when dividing mormons from other cristians you will never hear taught or found in church instruction materials today because they simply not part of current teaching. Mormons curenntly teach the oneness yet separateness of triune God they just use different language that emphasizes the separateness aspect more than their oneness. For mormons this helps to settle for them the mystery that Catholics hold onto. They still believe that they are the same substance and are part of one entity. The Mormons have just developed different vocabulary to discribe the same thing. Just as Catholics developed pergatory and mormons use the term spirit world, they are both talking about that place Jesus went to that peter talks about that we know is different from eternal hell but for which they had no other word for when the Bible was written.

Having said that. Mormon’s emphasis the friend and husband relationship to his people and often fail to focus as much on us as creatures that God created. It is the same kind of argument that you find in Christianity over faith and works. Where is the appropriate place in the middle do we place that line. How much faith vs how much works.
How much friend to God vs creature of God? Just because some focus more on one side of the coin doesn’t negate for them that the coin continues to have another side.

To say that all Mormons believe the same thing is also untrue.


#442

Not sure what you mean. Everything originated with and through God. I don’t know how many mormons believe whatever it is you are talking about I know the ones I talk to believe that all originated with God. Many of the old 1800 beliefs are simply not taught now because current leaders don’t know how to discuss them because they themselves don’t ascribe to them. Just as the Catholic Church now frowns on some of their earlier institutions like indulgences or the crusades etc. some people today still shun Catholics for these things even though no one I have met in the Catholic Church believes today that those institutions were right.

People often take Bruce R Mcconkie’s book “Mormon doctrine” to believe that it contains what mormons believe or teach in today’s church. However it was never and has never had the full backing of the church or ever been published under its authority. Journal of discourse also was never full backed or published under the name of the church as doctrine either. As members of the church we are even to understand that articles published in church magazines do not always reflect official doctrine. The doctrine taught in the church has shifted overtime to reflect the current understanding that it’s leaders seek to decern scripture through the Spirit.


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