Let's talk about skeptism


#1

Dear froends in Christ,

Why in your opinion is there so much skeptism about catholism:rolleyes:

God Bless,
pat /PJM


#2

[quote="PJM, post:1, topic:297584"]
Dear froends in Christ,

Why in your opinion is there so much skeptism about catholism:rolleyes:

God Bless,
pat /PJM

[/quote]

In this day and age I think it is simply due to human nature. When one is raised in a cerain faith tradition, it takes a lot for someone to be motivated enough to search elsewhere for the truth. It is not that unusual that a person growing up with certain biases surrounding them all of their lives, concerning the CC, would bring those biases, and therefore skepticism toward the Church, into their adult lives.


#3

Sin, pure and simple.

:shrug::shrug:


#4

Catholicism has a very different (and true) understanding of human freedom than the modern (and false) understanding that exists in the world.


#5

Speaking very generally, it may simply be that Catholicism offers more to be skeptical of. In other words, one of the great strengths of Catholicism to its believers may also be its greatest vulnerability in the eyes of doubters.

A Protestant denomination which may answer a question by saying “study the Bible and you’ll find the answer” presents an inherently smaller target to the skeptic than Catholicism, which is more likely to say “the answer is such-and-such”.


#6

[quote="PJM, post:1, topic:297584"]
Dear froends in Christ,

Why in your opinion is there so much skeptism about catholism:rolleyes:

God Bless,
pat /PJM

[/quote]

Sin. Yes.

Tell me that I can self interpret scripture and ignore tradition and I will interpret scripture to fit my own needs. I become King and Jury and that is very convenient. Pride takes over and onces it rules me, it's very hard to clense.


#7
  1. Personal grievance
    Due to its sheer size, Catholicism inevitably includes a lot of people who do bad things: even 0.01% of one billion people is still one hundred thousand people. The victims, and those who love the victims, of these failures are likely to blame Catholicism as a whole for the failures of individuals.

  2. History
    See above, but in the past tense.

  3. Politics
    The struggle for dominance between Northern European and Southern European powers in the C16th-17th became embroiled with religious identification, and religious propaganda. Some of this still persists, especially in the works of Jack Chick.

  4. The Devil hates you.

  5. Epistemological incommensurability
    The Catholic basis for believing something to be wrong is not only unknown but very hard to comprehend for many non-Catholics. Obvious examples for this are issues like gay rights and contraception. It is easy to brush this off as simply being an issue of "the sinful blindness of outsiders", but it might also be considered that a failure in communication should not be automatically blamed upon the other side.


#8

I think Americans could have another reason to be skeptic - we've learned to distrust (usually with good reason) large organizations: big government, big-business, and big-labor.


#9

=ExCatholicGuy;9738437]Speaking very generally, it may simply be that Catholicism offers more to be skeptical of. In other words, one of the great strengths of Catholicism to its believers may also be its greatest vulnerability in the eyes of doubters.

A Protestant denomination which may answer a question by saying “study the Bible and you’ll find the answer” presents an inherently smaller target to the skeptic than Catholicism, which is more likely to say “the answer is such-and-such”.

OK, so lets address some of YOUR reason for leaving:)

Is your issue the finality of Catholic Truth

or the singleness of it?

God Bless you dear friend, let’s talk:thumbsup:

God Bless,
Pat /PJm


#10

Bad Catholics are the number 1 reason why people dislike or disbelieve the Church.

We would do well to remember that we are representing the Church 24/7 if we call ourselves Catholics and that very many people may make a judgement of the entire institution based on how we act.


#11

Lots of reasons.

Catholicism has a lot of pious legends that I tend to be skeptical of, but some take seriously


#12

[quote="PJM, post:1, topic:297584"]
Dear froends in Christ,

Why in your opinion is there so much skeptism about catholism:rolleyes:

God Bless,
pat /PJM

[/quote]

I'm probably reading way too much into the question, but I tend to suspect that modernity has brought us backwards 2000 years, so that we are like the children being piped to; The citizens of Corozain and Bethsaida; Capharnaum.

I'm not sure of the answer to your questions regarding where the skepticism comes from, but I suspect it is from losing site of Jesus Christ, and being afraid of relenting to what he actually tells us. To hear is voice, is to accept His divinity. To accept His divinity, is to accept His yoke. To accept His yoke is to cease to be skeptical of Him, and become willing to rest in Him. At the root, it's something along those lines most likely. We've become so "new" in our thinking, that we've gone full circle backward to the thinking at the time of the incarnation. Jesus is visibly in front of us on the altar. In the tabernacles. In front of our eyes as the priest holds up His body, as he tells us, "This is the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world". When we hear His voice, we believe, and our skepticism is washed away.


MATT 11:
[16] But whereunto shall I esteem this generation to be like? It is like to children sitting in the market place. [17] Who crying to their companions say: We have piped to you, and you have not danced: we have lamented, and you have not mourned. [18] For John came neither eating nor drinking; and they say: He hath a devil. [19] The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say: Behold a man that is a glutton and a wine drinker, a friend of publicans and sinners. And wisdom is justified by her children. [20] Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein were done the most of his miracles, for that they had not done penance.

[21] Woe to thee, Corozain, woe to thee, Bethsaida: for if in Tyre and Sidon had been wrought the miracles that have been wrought in you, they had long ago done penance in sackcloth and ashes. [22] But I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment, than for you. [23] And thou Capharnaum, shalt thou be exalted up to heaven? thou shalt go down even unto hell. For if in Sodom had been wrought the miracles that have been wrought in thee, perhaps it had remained unto this day. [24] But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.*** [25] At that time Jesus answered and said: I confess to thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to the little ones.***

[26] Yea, Father; for so hath it seemed good in thy sight. [27] All things are delivered to me by my Father. And no one knoweth the Son, but the Father: **neither doth any one know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom it shall please the Son to reveal him. *[28] Come to me, all you that labour, and are burdened, and I will refresh you. [29] *Take up my yoke upon you, and learn of me, because I am meek, and humble of heart:** and you shall find rest to your souls. [30] For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.

JOHN 10:
[23] And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon's porch. [24] The Jews therefore came round about him, and said to him: How long dost thou hold our souls in suspense? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. [25] Jesus answered them: I speak to you, and you believe not: the works that I do in the name of my Father, they give testimony of me.

[26] But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. [27] My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. [28] And I give them life everlasting; and they shall not perish for ever, and no man shall pluck them out of my hand. [29] That which my Father hath given me, is greater than all: and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father. [30]*** I and the Father are one.***

The peace of the Lord be with us all,

Steven


#13

[quote="Bill_Martin, post:10, topic:297584"]
Bad Catholics are the number 1 reason why people dislike or disbelieve the Church.

We would do well to remember that we are representing the Church 24/7 if we call ourselves Catholics and that very many people may make a judgement of the entire institution based on how we act.

[/quote]

There's lots of bad Lutherans, Anglicans, Baptists, etc., too.

Jon


#14

Because of worldly philosophies. Whether it is a problem of faulty epistemology, faulty views on truth and justice, false theories about morality or false opinions about politics and freedom, being educated or raised under the influence of worldly views you tend to think what is good is evil and what is evil is good. At least that is until you experience the reality and love of God, which transforms you.


#15

[quote="InJesusItrust, post:14, topic:297584"]
Because of worldly philosophies. Whether it is a problem of faulty epistemology, faulty views on truth and justice, false theories about morality or false opinions about politics and freedom, being educated or raised under the influence of worldly views you tend to think what is good is evil and what is evil is good. At least that is until you experience the reality and love of God, which transforms you.

[/quote]

Or as Chesterton said.....men disagree over what evils they will exuse.


#16

We live in a cynical age and people are generally losing interest in orthodox Christianity. Also worth adding is the increase in secularism is leading the charge and people are more inclined to question the church more.


#17

Chesterton , the Apostle of common sense , also said
" The Catholic Church has not been tried
and found wanting.
It has been found hard
and left untried " :cool:


#18

=GreatergoodGod;9751436]We live in a cynical age and people are generally losing interest in orthodox Christianity. Also worth adding is the increase in secularism is leading the charge and people are more inclined to question the church more.

So my friend, WHAT do we do about it?

God Bless,
Pat


#19

People have a skeptical eye to any truth-claims, especially religious claims. Catholicism has a very large truth-claim, the skepticism towards it is equally large. Coming from an atheist background, my skepticism began with the existence of God. Skepticism about faith. The list was long after that. The Creed is a good guideline for what is believed, but also what people are skeptical about. Jesus a real person or legend? Jesus is divine? Faith in God is hard enough, but now we have other “unseen” things like angels? Really? The list of skepticism towards the Bible has list of its own. Add in Pope, clergy, magisterium, saints, real presence, confession, incorruptibles, eucharistic miracles. Add, as Marie already pointed out, pious legends.

Conversion of the skeptic, is nothing short of miracle.


#20

Well I had an Atheist background, so there is some hope. The journey of faith is just that s journey, lot of these people that question everything haven't even started the journey.


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