Limbo: Can it exist as named?


#1

From reading the various posts and topics, I have always had one question related to limbo. Will the Catholic Church ever accept or acknowledge limbo by its present name??? I find three reasons that it would be difficult. First, some place it in Sheol, some in Purgatory and some around or next door to Heaven. It appears to share attributes with all three but does not belong exclusively to any. Second, the theory’s original ties to the Pelagian heresy casts a shadow on the idea. Third, I cannot find one Church Father around the time of Augustine (and there were others I can’t remember off the top of my head, but he was the most prolific) who actively supported and endorsed and defended limbo against the attacks made on the theory.

As for limbo and infants who die before Baptism, we entrust them to God’s mercy and His Omnipotence (as in the Catechism that God is free to work outside of the Sacraments as we cannot comprehend) and I have seen the Baptism of desire brought up upon which two situations occur:
First, the parents do not want their child baptized (atheists, pagan, etc.) and Second, in the Summa Theologica Thomas Acquinas said that the desire on the part of the Church can apply to the Eucharist but not Baptism. I must admit as I trace the voices over the centuries, they appear to have softened.

I curious as to others thoughts on whether limbo can find a home in the Church Doctrine as it is against a sizable bump in the road of Tradition and its name. What do you think??? Thanks and God Bless.


#2

what’s in a name?

the idea is that a just kind and merciful God wouldn’t condem unbaptised babies for things out of thier control so there has to be provisions for them

we just don’t know what it is

I think that Church seems comfortable enough with itself to say “we don’t know” when it doesn’t
so, no, Limbo won’t find an “official” place IMHO


#3

I don’t buy into limbo. Although the Church says she doesn’t know, I would think that unbaptized babies go to heaven. Jesus said to let the little ones come to him unhindered (sorry, can’t think of the verse number off the top of my head).


#4

[quote=Genesis315]I don’t buy into limbo. Although the Church says she doesn’t know, I would think that unbaptized babies go to heaven. Jesus said to let the little ones come to him unhindered (sorry, can’t think of the verse number off the top of my head).
[/quote]


**I agree with you completely…There is no doubt in my mind that God takes unbaptized babies and small children who die to Himself. **


#5

[quote=slinky1882]From reading the various posts and topics, I have always had one question related to limbo. Will the Catholic Church ever accept or acknowledge limbo by its present name??? I find three reasons that it would be difficult. First, some place it in Sheol, some in Purgatory and some around or next door to Heaven. It appears to share attributes with all three but does not belong exclusively to any. Second, the theory’s original ties to the Pelagian heresy casts a shadow on the idea. Third, I cannot find one Church Father around the time of Augustine (and there were others I can’t remember off the top of my head, but he was the most prolific) who actively supported and endorsed and defended limbo against the attacks made on the theory.

As for limbo and infants who die before Baptism, we entrust them to God’s mercy and His Omnipotence (as in the Catechism that God is free to work outside of the Sacraments as we cannot comprehend) and I have seen the Baptism of desire brought up upon which two situations occur:
First, the parents do not want their child baptized (atheists, pagan, etc.) and Second, in the Summa Theologica Thomas Acquinas said that the desire on the part of the Church can apply to the Eucharist but not Baptism. I must admit as I trace the voices over the centuries, they appear to have softened.

I curious as to others thoughts on whether limbo can find a home in the Church Doctrine as it is against a sizable bump in the road of Tradition and its name. What do you think??? Thanks and God Bless.
[/quote]

The Church has in fact acknowledged Limbo but has not up to now specifically defined it. Aquinas speaks very clearly about the difference of “Place” and “State” of the soul after death. I think that God is black and white on many things. We however want to make grey out of the black and white. I heard a commercial the other day saying something along the lines of being almost pregnant or a little pregnant. You either are or your not! At the end of time there will be two Places, your soul will be either here or there depending on if your soul has the gift of Grace from Baptism in it.


#6

yes, there was,(is?) a limbo.I would have to say “Abraham’s bosom.”:slight_smile: All of those who have gone before the arrival of Jesus the Messiah were taken there in waiting for the salvation of man to be accomplished, and for Jesus to open the gates of heaven once again to man. It is part of Catholic faith.
633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.479 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:480 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Saviour in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."481 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.482

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1R.HTM


#7

It is my belief that unbaptised babies attain salvation by virtue of the Baptism of Desire. Witness John Baptist leaping in his mother’s womb. Of course he recognized Jesus!

It is then my consequent belief that unbaptised aborted babies attain salvation by virtue of the Baptism of Blood because they are martyred in violation of Christ’s teaching.

So original sin is rescinded by virtue of the above. Since these babies have no opportunity to sin beyond original sin, what is impeding them from rushing into the arms of Jesus upon their deaths?


#8

[quote=Br. Rich SFO]The Church has in fact acknowledged Limbo but has not up to now specifically defined it. Aquinas speaks very clearly about the difference of “Place” and “State” of the soul after death. I think that God is black and white on many things. We however want to make grey out of the black and white. I heard a commercial the other day saying something along the lines of being almost pregnant or a little pregnant. You either are or your not! At the end of time there will be two Places, your soul will be either here or there depending on if your soul has the gift of Grace from Baptism in it.
[/quote]

Hey, I have heard this elsewhere, but where has the Church acknowledged limbo??? Thanks and God Bless.


#9

“It is my belief that unbaptised babies attain salvation by virtue of the Baptism of Desire. Witness John Baptist leaping in his mother’s womb. Of course he recognized Jesus!”

We can have hope that there is a way known only to God!

“It is then my consequent belief that unbaptised aborted babies attain salvation by virtue of the Baptism of Blood because they are martyred in violation of Christ’s teaching.”

In order to be martyred. They would have to be killed because of hatred for Christ or because they professed to be Christian. You can’t apply Baptism of Blood to every unbaptized murder victim.

“Since these babies have no opportunity to sin beyond original sin, what is impeding them from rushing into the arms of Jesus upon their deaths.”

Original Sin


#10

[quote=slinky1882]Hey, I have heard this elsewhere, but where has the Church acknowledged limbo??? Thanks and God Bless.
[/quote]

You will find reference to the Limbo of the infants or children in Denzinger also known as The sources of Catholic Dogma.


#11

[quote=Br. Rich SFO]“It is my belief that unbaptised babies attain salvation by virtue of the Baptism of Desire. Witness John Baptist leaping in his mother’s womb. Of course he recognized Jesus!”

We can have hope that there is a way known only to God!

“It is then my consequent belief that unbaptised aborted babies attain salvation by virtue of the Baptism of Blood because they are martyred in violation of Christ’s teaching.”

In order to be martyred. They would have to be killed because of hatred for Christ or because they professed to be Christian. You can’t apply Baptism of Blood to every unbaptized murder victim.

“Since these babies have no opportunity to sin beyond original sin, what is impeding them from rushing into the arms of Jesus upon their deaths.”

Original Sin
[/quote]

From what I heard, those who have died before baptism but do not deserve hell, will be judged correctly on the last day. By then we hope they will choose God.


#12

[quote=Lovez4God]From what I heard, those who have died before baptism but do not deserve hell, will be judged correctly on the last day. By then we hope they will choose God.
[/quote]

Can individuals make choices after they have died??? I am a little confused by what you meant in your last line. Thanks and God Bless.


#13

[quote=slinky1882]Can individuals make choices after they have died??? I am a little confused by what you meant in your last line. Thanks and God Bless.
[/quote]

Those individuals that never had the opportunity to make a choice, for example, souls of aborted children. A priest once told me they will get to choose when Judgment Day comes. Not only that, Virgin Mary will intercede for a great number of souls who would have not made it on that day!!


#14

Limbo is real. It’s where you place a bar horizontally and try to walk under it without touching it, at ever decreasing height from the ground.


#15

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