Line of David-through Mary or Joseph?


#1

Is Jesus from the line of David through Mary? If not through Mary then how can he be considered to be from David since Joseph was his foster father?


#2

Matthew 1:1-17 traces it through Joseph who was Jesus’ legal father and the that lineage is what hte people of the time would recognize.

Although not a canonical source, the Protoevangelium of James says Mary is of David’s line. This is also our source for the names of Mary’s parents.

And there was a council of the priests, saying: Let us make a veil for the temple of the Lord. And the priest said: Call to me the undefiled virgins of the family of David. And the officers went away, and sought, and found seven virgins. And the priest remembered the child Mary, that she was of the family of David, and undefiled before God. And the officers went away and brought her. And they brought them into the temple of the Lord.

So, both the the legal end and the actual bloodline end are covered.


#3

Typically, one did not marry outside of one’s tribe.
Eusebius talks about the discrepancies between the Matthan and Lukan genealogies and reconciles them.

ccel.org/fathers2/NPNF2-01/Npnf2-01-06.htm#P524_306677

It is under the title:
[list]
*]Chapter VII. The Alleged Discrepancy in the Gospels in Regard to the Genealogy of Christ.
[/list]


#4

Jesus’ line of David is through Joseph as foster father and legal guardian of Jesus. This is scripture.
Line of David through Mary is only speculation.


#5

Jesus’ line of David is through Joseph as foster father and legal guardian of Jesus. This is scripture.
Line of David through Mary is only speculation.

This is true, though the dual descent would certainly account for the differences in genealogy. Also, his kingship of Israel would be reinforced with descent through Mary, which would provide a blood relationship to the line of Kings.


#6

[quote=Gabrielle S] Is Jesus from the line of David through Mary? If not through Mary then how can he be considered to be from David since Joseph was his foster father?
[/quote]

Both are of the house of David.

[quote=www.drbo.org] Isaias 7, 11 Ask thee a sign of the Lord thy God either unto the depth of hell, or unto the height above. 12 And Achaz said: I will not ask, and I will not tempt the Lord. 13 And he said: Hear ye therefore, O house of David: Is it a small thing for you to be grievous to men, that you are grievous to my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel. 15 He shall eat butter and honey, that he may know to refuse the evil, and to choose the good.
[/quote]

This deals solely with the house of David, no other, the virgin was to be of the house of David.

[quote=thistle]Jesus’ line of David is through Joseph as foster father and legal guardian of Jesus. This is scripture.
Line of David through Mary is only speculation.
[/quote]

No it is not speculation, unless you think there was another virgin???


#7

Check out this article: rtforum.org/lt/lt11.html
Mary became impregnated while still a virgin, there was NO male “seed of flesh” of David or anyone else from anyone except Mary. His sole humanity comes from Mary.

[quote=WWW.DRBO.ORG]Romans 1, 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 Which he had promised before, by his prophets, in the holy scriptures, 3 Concerning his Son, who was made to him of the seed of David, according to the flesh,”
[/quote]

Again we’re speaking of the flesh not legal inheritance. Where was His “seed of David, according to the flesh,” if not by Mary?


#8

Mary and Joseph, both being faithful Jews, would have married within their line. Back during the time of Jesus, Jews only married to their “tribe”. So a Levite would only marry a Levite, a Ashkenazi would only marry an Ashkenazi etc. So Jesus is descended from David thru Mary and Joseph. Another interesting thing about Judaism, is that the “Jewishness” is passed from the mother’s line. So in order to be a Jew your mom had to be a Jew, but your dad does not have to be a Jew.


#9

[quote=WWW.DRBO.ORG]Gn 1,15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
[/quote]

Between the woman’s seed and Satan.


#10

[quote=Tom]Both are of the house of David.
This deals solely with the house of David, no other, the virgin was to be of the house of David.
No it is not speculation, unless you think there was another virgin???
[/quote]

Why then does the Church agree with the line of David through Joseph but has no official position on the line of David through Mary.


#11

[quote=Semper Fi]Mary and Joseph, both being faithful Jews, would have married within their line. Back during the time of Jesus, Jews only married to their “tribe”. So a Levite would only marry a Levite, a Ashkenazi would only marry an Ashkenazi etc. So Jesus is descended from David thru Mary and Joseph. Another interesting thing about Judaism, is that the “Jewishness” is passed from the mother’s line. So in order to be a Jew your mom had to be a Jew, but your dad does not have to be a Jew.
[/quote]

:thumbsup:


#12

[quote=thistle]Why then does the Church agree with the line of David through Joseph but has no official position on the line of David through Mary.
[/quote]

You are fighting an uphill battle. Jews of the day only married to other members of their tribe (and Orthodox Jews for the most part still do today). Technically, Jesus would have been a Jew even if his adopted father Joseph was Gentile.


#13

[quote=Semper Fi]You are fighting an uphill battle. Jews of the day only married to other members of their tribe (and Orthodox Jews for the most part still do today). Technically, Jesus would have been a Jew even if his adopted father Joseph was Gentile.
[/quote]

Don’t get me wrong. I am definitely not saying or trying to say that Mary was not from the line of David. I’m more than happy to accept that.
I was just wondering why the Church only uses the line through Joseph to show the line of David to Jesus.
If is is so clear that Mary is from the line of David (and a blood line at that) why does the Church never put forward this position if it is indisputable?


#14

[quote=thistle]Don’t get me wrong. I am definitely not saying or trying to say that Mary was not from the line of David. I’m more than happy to accept that.
I was just wondering why the Church only uses the line through Joseph to show the line of David to Jesus.
If is is so clear that Mary is from the line of David (and a blood line at that) why does the Church never put forward this position if it is indisputable?
[/quote]

It’s only disputable if people question the faithfulness of Joseph and Mary. Faithful Jews only married within their tribe. Also, will you point me to the specific church teaching which has it that Jesus’ line from David only comes from Joseph?


#15

Hi;
Has anyone noticed that the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew is through David’s son Solomon and that genealogy given in Luke is through David’s son Nathan.
Some say that one genealogy is of Mary and the of Joseph.
Any ideas?

allischalmers


#16

[quote=Semper Fi]It’s only disputable if people question the faithfulness of Joseph and Mary. Faithful Jews only married within their tribe. Also, will you point me to the specific church teaching which has it that Jesus’ line from David only comes from Joseph?
[/quote]

I didn’t say the Church “teaches” this. I said it uses the line through Joseph. Ask any priest and he will use Joseph. I have also seen this more than once on EWTN. Apart from these forums I have never heard the Mary line being used. It has always been Joseph.
Even the Catholic Encyclopedia I have calls Joseph the adoptive father of Jesus, and calls Joseph a just man from the House of David.
It makes no mention of Mary being from the line of David. If it was so definitive wouldn’t the Church rather use a blood line than an adoptive line??


#17

[quote=thistle]I didn’t say the Church “teaches” this. I said it uses the line through Joseph. Ask any priest and he will use Joseph. I have also seen this more than once on EWTN. Apart from these forums I have never heard the Mary line being used. It has always been Joseph.
Even the Catholic Encyclopedia I have calls Joseph the adoptive father of Jesus, and calls Joseph a just man from the House of David.
It makes no mention of Mary being from the line of David. If it was so definitive wouldn’t the Church rather use a blood line than an adoptive line??
[/quote]

I have never heard the “Church” only use (or teach) the line through Joseph. I have always been taught both. Most of the priest I have asked say both!?! (My point… a priest is not an infallible answer machine.)

This is one example of a Catholic encyclopedia saying: “Mary was of the house of David…” (about 3rd or 4th line down)

newadvent.org/cathen/01541c.htm

Simple answer is… you must not have read everything the Church possibly has to say on the subject! :smiley: Seriously though… the Church’s official position is both Joseph and Mary are of the house of David.

Most of the lines I have seen only list the men. There would be no reason to have a list of men’s names, and then stick Mary at the end before Jesus. One cannot assume that just because a line of men is used… that “Mary isn’t form the house of David”. Again… Both Joseph and MAry are of the house of David. :slight_smile:


#18

See Section: "Mary’s Davidic ancestry"
From: newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm


#19

[quote=allischalmers]Hi;
Has anyone noticed that the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew is through David’s son Solomon and that genealogy given in Luke is through David’s son Nathan.
Some say that one genealogy is of Mary and the of Joseph.
Any ideas?

allischalmers
[/quote]

allis,

see my previous post on this thread and the link to it. Eusebius addresses your question back in the 4th century.


#20

[quote=thistle]Why then does the Church agree with the line of David through Joseph but has no official position on the line of David through Mary.
[/quote]

The Church does not make an “official” pisition on many matters. Not having an official position doesn’t mean it isn’t true. Scripture spells it out why would the Church need to have an “official position”? Again, how is Jesus “the seed of the flesh” of David if thru Joseph?


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