Liturgical Abuse - What to do about it?


#1

We are a proud and faithful Catholic family who recently moved to EDIT TX, from Louisiana, after losing our house in Katrina. We have attended Mass at six or seven churches in the area, and ALL have what I consider to be rather signficant liturgical abuse.

I could give several interesting, funny, and amazing examples, but I will use the latest from today’s Mass. This morning, immediately after the homily and before the profession of faith, the Monsignor interrupted the Mass to have an awards ceremony for the boy scouts. He walked into the Mass (no, he was not concelebrating) to welcome the scouts and then called about 15 out by name, and invited them with their parents to come to the front of the church to be congratulated and to have pins put on them. Then, he asked the congregation to stand and bless the scouts. The entire episode took probably 4-5 minutes, with 2-3 interruptions for applause. After this interruption, the Monsignor left Mass, took off his vestments, and returned to Mass in his black clothing to walk around. (This is not a joke.)

I have spent the past two hours researching the proper form of liturgy and can find NOTHING that even remotely permits this activity. What in the world is going on with our beautiful faith? Believe it or don’t, I actually spoke with this very same Monsignor not two days ago about other examples, and, with all respect due, he thinks Mass interruptions, changed words, and other non-standard liturgy is perfectly acceptable. I am at a loss for how to handle this or what do do

Any advice? And, please, if anyone of authority thinks this is acceptable Mass activity, I surely would like to be corrected.


#2

Keep looking for a good reverent Liturgy. You could talk to the priest about it. Or let the bishop know. Bad liturgies unfortunately are common in the US. I’m sorry about your house in Katrina. My family is a Rita victim in Louisiana, so I know how you feel.

God Bless Abundantly,
Ace :slight_smile:


#3

Here are some approaches:

  • Discuss with and write letters to the priest.
  • Discuss with and write letters to the bishop.
  • Write letters to the Vatican.
  • Bring a Tribunal case against the priest, that your rights under the Code of Canon Law, canon 846, are not being respected. It has: “The liturgical books approved by the competent authority are to be faithfully observed in the celebration of the sacraments; therefore no one on personal authority may add, remove or change anything in them.” (From Code of Canon Law, Canon Law Society of America).
  • Educate others in the parish, diocese or wider Church so that more pressure will be brought on the individual to follow the liturgical books.

#4

I don’t see how this was abusive. The Mass was not interrupted, and it occurred during the homily period. Sounds perfectly legit to me, if done reverently.


#5

[quote=Sacramentalist]I don’t see how this was abusive. The Mass was not interrupted, and it occurred during the homily period. Sounds perfectly legit to me, if done reverently.
[/quote]

Of course it wasn’t an abuse :tsktsk: We all know and appreciate the fact that the time after the homily and prior to the profession of faith is in the Mass the liturgical equivalent of recess in school. After all, the congregation has been in the church for probably thirty minutes or so and is more than likely wore out. What better time to have an awards program? But lets not stop there, we could use it for liturgical dancing, juggling, clown acts, home movies or if there are any aspiring comedians in the congregation how about a stand up routine or two?? I can see the headlines now!!!

Father Guido Sarducci live Sunday Morning at St. Cecilias Comedy Shop

The possibilities are endless I tell you endless. :thumbsup:


#6

[quote=Sacramentalist]I don’t see how this was abusive. The Mass was not interrupted, and it occurred during the homily period. Sounds perfectly legit to me, if done reverently.
[/quote]

My friend, you did not read what I wrote. I specifically wrote that this event occurred “immediately AFTER the homily and before the profession of faith.” Plus, you did not comment on the Monsignor’s participation in Mass with a concomitant failure to concelebrate (which, I believe, but I am not sure, is also an abuse.

Perhaps a better point is, as Palmas85, pointed out, if you don’t think this is an abuse (and a rather large one at that), perhaps you might want to do a little research. God bless.


#7

there is a Catholic award for Boy Scouts called Ad Altari Dei, which involves an extended preparation aiding the boy to learn more about Catholic Faith and practice, since reverence for God are part of both the promise and law. This award is to be presented during a Mass at which the boys and their parents are present, because the parents have a part in the ceremony.

As with anything “Catholic” this has a community dimension, Mass is the proper time, but not in the middle, and not with additional hooplah that overshadows the Mass itself.
As with all such occasions the presentation may be made after the Entrance prayer, or after the Communion prayer before the final blessing. Liturgical rites, such as baptism, RCIA rites of lent etc. are properly done after the Gospel, but not events such as these which are not liturgical in nature. that would include a blessing for a girl’s quincenera, blessing for another group gathered together on a special occassion - Catholic Daughters etc.–before or after, not during.


#8

[quote=palmas85]Of course it wasn’t an abuse :tsktsk: We all know and appreciate the fact that the time after the homily and prior to the profession of faith is in the Mass the liturgical equivalent of recess in school.
[/quote]

also the logical time for a potty break, I hope in our new church they will install as many bathrooms as the average football statium to handle the crowds after the homily. hopefully people will use this opportunity to answer their cell phones outside instead of during the collection and offertory song.


#9

You definitely need to write the Bishop about the liturgical abuses thay you have experiencef. I am completely confident that if the Chancery found out about what was taking place in these parishes heads would roll!


#10

[quote=Fast_ed75]You definitely need to write the Bishop about the liturgical abuses thay you have experiencef. I am completely confident that if the Chancery found out about what was taking place in these parishes heads would roll!
[/quote]

Like this?
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Well, there’s no harm in trying. Some bishops might actually do something about it.


#11

[quote=cjaubert]My friend, you did not read what I wrote. I specifically wrote that this event occurred “immediately AFTER the homily and before the profession of faith.” Plus, you did not comment on the Monsignor’s participation in Mass with a concomitant failure to concelebrate (which, I believe, but I am not sure, is also an abuse.

Perhaps a better point is, as Palmas85, pointed out, if you don’t think this is an abuse (and a rather large one at that), perhaps you might want to do a little research. God bless.
[/quote]

Concelebration is not a requirement.


#12

OK I am in Archdiocese of Boston. I have been trying to figure out where to email or write to forever about this, but i cant figure it out. THe site is www.rcab.org. If someone could take a peek and see if they can get it that would be much appreciated. :cool:


#13

You are in the EDIT diocese, right? Don’t bother to write the Archbishop. He turned 75 about a week ago and sent in his letter of retirement. His successor is already here as our coadjutor. He has a reputation for being a stickler for a reverent liturgy. So my advise is to just have a little patience.

I moved here about 8 years ago and was amazed at what was allowed to go on in the various parishes. Luckily I found a nice small parish with a reverent and orthodox priest. I don’t know much about EDIT your area but I think you could find the same with a little more shopping. Good luck.


#14

I have heard that the Archbishop EDIT(God bless him) is not the most orthodox Archbishop in history. I have also heard that Bishop DiNardo is VERY strict on liturgy, but, frankly, he has a LOT of work to do. This place is amazing (and I’m not sure that was a compliment).


#15

[quote=Lazerlike42]OK I am in Archdiocese of Boston. I have been trying to figure out where to email or write to forever about this, but i cant figure it out. THe site is www.rcab.org. If someone could take a peek and see if they can get it that would be much appreciated. :cool:
[/quote]

Chancery: 2121 Commonwealth Ave., Boston, MA, 02135-3193, Telephone 617-254-0100, FAX 617-783-4564

rcab.org/Office/HomePage.html

Maybe this wasn’t what you wanted.

I can be slow sometimes. :o


#16

[quote=maryjk]Chancery: 2121 Commonwealth Ave., Boston, MA, 02135-3193, Telephone 617-254-0100, FAX 617-783-4564

rcab.org/Office/HomePage.html

Maybe this wasn’t what you wanted.

I can be slow sometimes. :o
[/quote]

Thanks!

I’m just not sure which of those I would contact :confused:


#17

what parish do you attend? I am from the Galveston-Houston Archdiocese too…

-Chris

[quote=kmktexas]You are in the Galveston-Houston diocese, right? Don’t bother to write the Archbishop. He turned 75 about a week ago and sent in his letter of retirement. His successor is already here as our coadjutor. He has a reputation for being a stickler for a reverent liturgy. So my advise is to just have a little patience.

I moved here about 8 years ago and was amazed at what was allowed to go on in the various parishes. Luckily I found a nice small parish with a reverent and orthodox priest. I don’t know much about the Woodlands area but I think you could find the same with a little more shopping. Good luck.
[/quote]


#18

Can’t really decide yet - EDIT is probably the worst violator; we kind of like St. Simon and Jude, and we’ve been to St. James, St. Edward, Christ the Good Shepherd, and Sacred Heart in Conroe. I think we are giong to St. Anne today…


#19

Traditionally, meaning going back even to the Traditional Mass, the sermon/homily itself was officially considered an interruption of the liturgy (one of the reasons we could have sermons in the verncular when the rest of the Mass was in Latin). As you know, when another sacrament or sacramental is taking place in the context of Mass (e.g. the actualy marriage in a nuptial mass), it happens after the homily. The official liturgy does not resume until the Creed, but of course, his is no excuse for irreverent behavior.

Now I don’t know what the rules are about ad hoc ceremonies, but I do know that taught at a Catholic high school for ten years, and we always had graduation during Mass, and yes, after the homily. And since we were having it at the cathedral, I assume this had the approval of the bishop.

I don’t see what difference it makes that the monsignor gave out the awards. I find it odd that he vested instead of just wearing a cassock, but if that ceremony was permissible in the first place I don’t see why he or even a lay person should not have done it. Priests are often present at Masses said by other priests, performing a function other than concelebrating.


#20

I go to St John Vianney, way out on the west even though we live closer to town. The liturgy is ok, but even with a new very talented music director, the music selection is the pits.

I will tell you where you will find the best liturgy in town is at Annunciation downtown. 8:00 Sunday is TLM, 9:30 English and 11:00, NO Latin. There is also NO Latin at Holy Rosary downtown. The next best thing is St. Rose of Lima near Shepherd and 34th. Great pastor there.

And do be patient and take heart. ABishop DiNardo celebrated Mass at our parish last summer, and I felt just like one of the disciples on the road to Emmaus. What a preacher!

I have lived in the diocese for over 35 years, and it has been messed up for a long time. It will take a long time to fix it and personally, I would rather find a decent parish than try to fight. I have better things to do than (for example) tryiing to teach the music director with a Phd why “We are the Light of the World” is not musically sound.

“We do not praise God with banality” -HE Francis Cardinal Arinze


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