Liturgy turned into religious entertainment


#1

Hi everyone! Have you you ever witnessed "religious entertainment" in Catholic churches?

Is there anything we can do to prevent such incidents to happen (again)? :(


#2

[quote="French_Catholic, post:1, topic:292602"]
Is there anything we can do to prevent such incidents to happen (again)? :(

[/quote]

No, I personally have no hope as regards this.


#3

Ah, liturgical fugitives. :shrug: And who said the '70s were dead? :dts:


#4

“Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly – it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation” this is the heart of the problem Liturgy can only attract people when it looks, not at itself, but at God, when it allows him to enter and act. Then something truly unique happens, beyond competition, and people have a sense that more has taken place than a recreational activity" Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger Excerpt from The Spirit of the Liturgy ,boy,the Holy Father has a way with words,does he not. thank you for posting this,i been have trying to remember where i had read something regarding applause at Mass for a while now.


#5

[quote="april32010, post:4, topic:292602"]
"Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly – it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation" this is the heart of the problem Liturgy can only attract people when it looks, not at itself, but at God, when it allows him to enter and act. Then something truly unique happens, beyond competition, and people have a sense that more has taken place than a recreational activity" Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger Excerpt from The Spirit of the Liturgy ,boy,the Holy Father has a way with words,does he not. thank you for posting this,i been have trying to remember where i had read something regarding applause at Mass for a while now.

[/quote]

That's a great quote. But a bit of the punctuation seems to be missing (see bolding added), and I'd like to file the quote away for future reference. :confused:


#6

I love love love the quote from the Holy Father! As a revert, part of my journey home was fueled by my being fed up with the entertainment “worship” phenom. Thank God for those who protect the liturgy for what it is!!


#7

[quote="French_Catholic, post:1, topic:292602"]
Hi everyone! Have you you ever witnessed "religious entertainment" in Catholic churches?

Is there anything we can do to prevent such incidents to happen (again)? :(

[/quote]

You can attend Mass and stay close to the sacraments.

Eventually the things that disturb you will go away. They cannot destroy the Catholic Church.


#8

King David danced in his skivvies before the Ark of the Covenant to express his delight. Michol, his wife, disdained what she thought was a base expression unworthy of the king. For her judgment, David refused to have sexual relations with her ever again. Why was this just? Perhaps because if Michol didn't see the sacred nature of his dance, she surely didn't see the sacred nature of their conjugal relations, so it would have been mere profane sex. He saved her and himself from sin. What a lesson.

King David's dance was not liturgical dance per se but was sacred dance. David's exuberance shows we must be careful in judging expressions of love for God. "Make a joyful noise unto the Lord." Today, "entertainment" means passive distraction and feeding "vain imaginings" like the obsession with Bat Man & Fiends that overtook the Aurora shooter. Even pagan Greek theater was meant, not merely to entertain, but to transform. So with the morality plays of the Middle Ages. It's not liturgy that is debased but entertainment itself. Today there is little "metanoia," transformation, just endless mazes to get one lost, to distract a person from finding self and God.

Some churches have massive pipe organs; and bring in large choirs and orchestras to perform classical Masses. For Gregory the Great, who threw out the greater part of "liturgical" music, he might have thought of this polyphony as excessive and constituting entertainment versus worship. Having heard Faure's Requiem Mass performed as an entertaining musical presentation; and heard Faure's Requiem in the context of a funeral Mass; there is no comparison. Here's Faure's PIE JESU on YouTube. Imagine that in the context of a Mass. Infinitely more transforming, bringing man closer to God and God closer to man, not leading down some rabbit trail. "Shout for joy unto the Lord, all you nations."

Christ urged the people to sing hosannah on His triumphal entry into Jerusalem or the very rocks themselves would sing out. "Hosannah, Fillio David!" It may not be thought of as shouting, but hearing a choir, after a season of sad lamentations, load the acoustics of a church, making it ring like a bell with resonance and harmonics and overtones as they sing a glorious "Allelulia" on Easter, is as close as it gets.

youtube.com/watch?v=rM0BmhAS_8A Mozart SANCTUS/HOSANNAH!

youtube.com/watch?v=_-fkcJbTBOM Gregorian HOSANNAH!

youtube.com/watch?v=VWMmolrId_4 Faure's PIE JESU.

May we delight in praising and thanking You, dear Lord, praying always.


#9

[quote="april32010, post:4, topic:292602"]
boy,the Holy Father has a way with words,does he not. thank you for posting this,i been have trying to remember where i had read something regarding applause at Mass for a while now.

[/quote]

He certainly does! :D

You're welcome, April :)


#10

[quote="StLudmilla, post:6, topic:292602"]
I love love love the quote from the Holy Father!

[/quote]

So do I! :thumbsup:


#11

[quote="Trebor135, post:5, topic:292602"]
That's a great quote. But a bit of the punctuation seems to be missing (see bolding added), and I'd like to file the quote away for future reference. :confused:

[/quote]

Try processing the first few lines through Google. Should work.


#12

They’re not, are they? :frowning:


#13

What is really sad is that so many people love this stuff. They get so caught up in the entertainment that they totally miss the point of what Holy Mass is all about.

This quote from a bride on the website of the Gospel Choir that sang at her wedding says it all!

"Just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone who performed at the wedding, you were absolutely fantastic and really made the mass more interesting and enjoyable! We’ll be recommending ye for ever! "

Yes it was a Catholic wedding mass!


#14

[quote="Gate, post:11, topic:292602"]
Try processing the first few lines through Google. Should work.

[/quote]

yes,your right. better yet,buy the book ignatius.com/Products/SPIL-H/the-spirit-of-the-liturgy.aspx :)


#15

[quote="applesofgold, post:13, topic:292602"]
What is really sad is that so many people love this stuff. They get so caught up in the entertainment that they totally miss the point of what Holy Mass is all about.

This quote from a bride on the website of the Gospel Choir that sang at her wedding says it all!

"Just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone who performed at the wedding, you were absolutely fantastic and really made the mass more interesting and enjoyable! We'll be recommending ye for ever! "

Yes it was a Catholic wedding mass!

[/quote]

Wow. Doesn't sound like she has the slightest idea what a Holy Mass really is :rolleyes:


#16

i just want to say i have spent a fair amount of time since my first post reading french catholic's blog,very well written and interesting.anyone reading this post who hasn't linked to it yet is missing out.:thumbsup:


#17

along with the last post,french catholic i do not know whether the rules allow you to put the link into your sig line.just a thought.:shrug:


#18

We have a family friend who is a Franciscan brother. He is an Ohio native who spent all of his first 50 years in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Indiana.

He was sent to Louisiana about twelve years ago. The culture there is unique and quite different compared to up north. Mostly rural, poor, black and French heritage.

My wife and her brother had the opportunity to experience their mass and said that it was "quite lively" with dancing and singing, but you still knew that it was a mass, albeit different.


#19

Every now and then I see people trying to sneak dancers into the Mass. It's usually kids (as if that makes it okay) and it's usually one of those only-just-this-one-day deals. I suppose the priest comes down on them later and we go a year or so before we see it again. The last time it was the bell choir. Six girls with tambourines came pirouetting down the aisles during the Gosple acclaimation. I thought, "Yikes! They're pushing the limit aren't them?" That was the end of that during Sunday Mass, but I think they still get away with that sort of nonsense at the school Masses.

I don't really have a problem with the choir swaying or clapping every now and then if it is an appropriate time, but they shouldn't turn the Mass into a free for all and be dancing around in order to attract attention to themselves. On the other hand, I know that dance is an important part of worship in some cultures and so it is more acceptable there and people can do it in a way that doesn't distract from the true purpose of the Mass. I'm fine with that too as it is part of their culture. However, in western culture, when someone dances, the normal thing to do is stop and pay attention to them. Dancing in western culture is a performance and not as participatory as in many African cultures. It's not appropriate for Mass.


#20

[quote="nordskoven, post:8, topic:292602"]
King David danced in his skivvies before the Ark of the Covenant to express his delight. Michol, his wife, disdained what she thought was a base expression unworthy of the king. For her judgment, David refused to have sexual relations with her ever again. Why was this just? Perhaps because if Michol didn't see the sacred nature of his dance, she surely didn't see the sacred nature of their conjugal relations, so it would have been mere profane sex. He saved her and himself from sin. What a lesson.

King David's dance was not liturgical dance per se but was sacred dance. David's exuberance shows we must be careful in judging expressions of love for God. "Make a joyful noise unto the Lord." Today, "entertainment" means passive distraction and feeding "vain imaginings" like the obsession with Bat Man & Fiends that overtook the Aurora shooter. Even pagan Greek theater was meant, not merely to entertain, but to transform. So with the morality plays of the Middle Ages. It's not liturgy that is debased but entertainment itself. Today there is little "metanoia," transformation, just endless mazes to get one lost, to distract a person from finding self and God.

Some churches have massive pipe organs; and bring in large choirs and orchestras to perform classical Masses. For Gregory the Great, who threw out the greater part of "liturgical" music, he might have thought of this polyphony as excessive and constituting entertainment versus worship. Having heard Faure's Requiem Mass performed as an entertaining musical presentation; and heard Faure's Requiem in the context of a funeral Mass; there is no comparison. Here's Faure's PIE JESU on YouTube. Imagine that in the context of a Mass. Infinitely more transforming, bringing man closer to God and God closer to man, not leading down some rabbit trail. "Shout for joy unto the Lord, all you nations."

Christ urged the people to sing hosannah on His triumphal entry into Jerusalem or the very rocks themselves would sing out. "Hosannah, Fillio David!" It may not be thought of as shouting, but hearing a choir, after a season of sad lamentations, load the acoustics of a church, making it ring like a bell with resonance and harmonics and overtones as they sing a glorious "Allelulia" on Easter, is as close as it gets.

youtube.com/watch?v=rM0BmhAS_8A Mozart SANCTUS/HOSANNAH!

youtube.com/watch?v=_-fkcJbTBOM Gregorian HOSANNAH!

youtube.com/watch?v=VWMmolrId_4 Faure's PIE JESU.

May we delight in praising and thanking You, dear Lord, praying always.

[/quote]

Would King David had danced at the foot of the cross?


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