Living Arrangements


#1

I simply want to know if the Catholic Church says it is ok for two people to live in the same house before marriage, sleeping in same room but different beds, living with one of the couple’s family, where the relationship has no sex until marriage.

I just want a yes or no.

Again:
#1 - living together before marriage
#2 - separate beds, same room
#3 - living with parents, brother, and sister
#4 - commitment of no sex until marriage


#2

OK folks ( Space Ghost, dhgray, Tom, Uncleauberon, Kage_ar, Scott Waddell, Tantum Ergo et al from the other post). Looks like we are not invited to answer this question other than saying…

God Bless you on your up-coming marriage. May God guide you.
:blessyou:


#3

No.


#4

No.

If you change your mind about wanting reasons behind Church teaching, please let us know.


#5

If its and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a Merry Christmas.


#6

NO. no. NNNNNOOOO.


#7

No.


#8

No :thumbsup:


#9

Are people here responding to what the CHURCHs position is…or your OWN? Cause some responses such as “no” lead one to believe you are answering according to the Church and since I dont think she has a position on this, you are being misleading.

Look at it like this…with LOGIC and REASON and what the Church DOES say… when a man & woman isnt married according to the Churchs laws but discover they wish to be…they would go thru an annulment if previously divorced or they would be gearing up to be married in the Church properly if they converted etc… what the Priest tells them to do is this: Until xyz occurs or is granted, you must promise to live like brother and sister…NO SEX. She doesnt say, one of you must move into a hotel until things are proper…but SEPARATE BEDS are recommended…and frankly Id laugh if she ever told a husband to live in a hotel and pay that extra expence…thankfully she DONT.

You arent getting an apartment beforehand and living together…you’re asking about sharing the same room in your PARENTS home in SEPARATE BEDS…you have made a promise… only you two know how sincere that promise is… frankly one isnt dealing in reality if they think just cause you have separate rooms to sleep in you wont be tempted…during the day…whats to stop you two from fooling around if the folks go out shopping? Is your sleeping arrangement really gonna have any effect on you getting it on in the laundry room perhaps? I’ve become aroused simply by smelling cinnamon… and there werent ANY women around me…Sorry, but some reason needs to be given other than reactions like mushroom cloud photos, images of gasoline and catastrophy… geez…I wish people would react as strong to violence in American culture as they do to sex…as if the world is gonna end if you two do slip up…thats thebeauty of Confession…not as a crutch to always fall back on and be abused…but its there…why? Cause we are sinners… and temptation is ALL OVER and can come from ANYTHING… if ya think you cant handle waiting…then sleep in separate rooms… if you know your vows are strong and she isnt gonna be letting you see her crawl into her bed wearing a nightie…stay in the room… I hope that was adult enough…cause some of the other responses just dont seem to cope with sex questions with charity and reason.


#10

Will rationalizations never cease? First, we are to avoid the appearance of evil. Second, it is a serious sin to place onself in the proximal occasion of sin. If a couple tried to convince someone in the world that they were sleeping in the same room and yet being chaste, well… let’s get real! What is worse is that most people wouldn’t even ask and unless the couple went around with T-shirts saying “We are living celibately together” everyone would presume that this Christian (assumption) couple were hypocrites or not living in accordance with the teachings of the Church or Scripture, etc. This could give scandal to others, cause others to think it’s okay to do the same, and otherwise give a bad example.

I know this first hand because my nephew (who had always been a devout Catholic) moved into his parent’s house with his girlfriend turned fiance. I could strangle my sister for allowing it! He claimed that they were living a chaste life. But…one thing led to another and before you know it they moved into an apartment together before getting married. He later admitted to me that they could not resist the temptation. Sadly, during that time my nephew’s faith suffered and now that he’s married, he doesn’t even attend Mass regularly any more. His wife is not Catholic and not even a practicing Christian, so what kind of example is that to her?

The effect on his younger brothers, whom he was discipling, was devastating.

So, at the least it is foolish, at worst it is a cause of scandal in others and placing oneself and ones loved one in the proximal occasion of sin - thus, it is a serious sin in itself and a very unloving thing to do to one’s future spouse.


#11

. RESPECT FOR THE DIGNITY OF PERSONS
Respect for the souls of others: scandal

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.”[85] Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.[86]

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.
Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to “social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible.”[87] This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,[88] or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. “Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!”[89]

If by seeing you doing this, others may think it’s ok to live together out of wedlock (even if you say you are not doing anything, who in their right mind would believe you.) OK, so you are not tempted :wink: :wink: .

Your bride would respect you more if she saw you suffering for her vurtue. If you are not willing to suffer for her, please do yourself a favor and get a pre-nuptial. It will save the lawyers time.


#12

im going to get into trouble for my response on this subject AS usual. my fiance and i lived together before marriage, three months before our marriage he started sleeping on the couch, (we decided to stop having sex) while we did slip up occasionally we did our best. we got married on the eleventh of this month and couldnt be happier. theres no guilt tied with the sex as there was before and its not a total shock to me that he leaves his underwear right IN FRONT of the hamper. i think the churches view on this is somewhat outdated but as many people have stated before the church isnt going to change its opinion. its a personal thing to me. if you think it will make your marriage better, and you mantain yours and her spiritual life, then what you decide is best left between you and God and your priest. I dont think living together destroys a marriage i think people destroy a marriage and then look for an excuse.


#13

Your first, foremost, and total mission in life is to LOVE, KNOW AND SERVE GOD! not yourself.

So if you have to bend over backwards to love, know and serve God and His will, than you should do such.

Now giving scandel to your siblings, planting that seed in their minds that this is “ok” could cause them to sin,(plus your own temptation but you say that is not an issue but it is still a very real fact) and we all know what God says about causing children to sin and what are some better alternatives, such as tying a millstone around your neck and dropping yourself off in the sea someplace.

none of this was yelling or said in a harsh tone or anything like that.

No is the answer.

May the Holy Spirit fill you with the graces and virtures to love, know and SERVE GOD fully and completely.


#14

Been there…considered doing that…so glad we decided to just say NO.


#15

Some people here need to get a grip with throwing out the word SCANDAL…lets see…its in the PRIVATE HOME of one of their parents…are the parents against this or do they trust them both? IF the parents have trust, then exactly WHOM are you stating would be scandalized? And in this day and age…lets say that the entire neighborhood knew of this arrangement…do you think someone would actually be scandalized by this? Personally I would call a person who has a problem with this a BUSY BODY…Definitions are nice and good but perspective is important as well… is anyone here gonna actually have the nerve to state YOU would be scandalized? By the fact that somewhere out there two people you dont know are sleeping in the same room together? With all due Charity… perspective is sorely lacking… I’m not scandalized…I dont even know the guy…and again…please put these statements forth as your OPINIONS…throwing out Church definitions without being able to name who would be scandalized doesnt back up the argument…SCANDAL…ie…HURT…OFFENDED…MENTALLY HARMED… etc, especially by those you trust …THAT is scandal…ie…gay priests and secret payoffs using Church donations…coverup…THATS SCANDAL…homosexuals adopting children…being allowed to teach grade school… gays kissing and or hand holding in public…while your kids see that…THATS scandal…gay marriage and abortion…THATS scandal…and unless this young man slips up he isnt scandalizing anyone… if there isnt any teaching on the subject…then what we ALL are putting forth is opinion…I just happen to feel mine is more charitable and well thought out, without trying to manipulate rationalization to undermine the Church. But if the poster really wants better advice… let him go and fully explain his situation to the Priest… and if the Priest says fine but he must excerise great care…case closed…if Father says no then let him abide by what the Priest says…But I bet any money that some here would have the gumption to say that if a Priest would say fine…they would say he wasnt a holy priest… I just bet ANY MONEY ON IT.


#16

Does the Church specifically state that this particular situation is sinful? No, it does not. Does this situation provide for the sin of scandal? Yes. Does this situation invite the near occassion of sin? Yes. Should you do it. No.

Under the Mercy,

Matthew


#17

[quote=Faithful 2 Rome]Some people here need to get a grip with throwing out the word SCANDAL…lets see…its in the PRIVATE HOME of one of their parents…are the parents against this or do they trust them both? IF the parents have trust, then exactly WHOM are you stating would be scandalized? And in this day and age…lets say that the entire neighborhood knew of this arrangement…do you think someone would actually be scandalized by this? Personally I would call a person who has a problem with this a BUSY BODY…Definitions are nice and good but perspective is important as well… is anyone here gonna actually have the nerve to state YOU would be scandalized? By the fact that somewhere out there two people you dont know are sleeping in the same room together? With all due Charity… perspective is sorely lacking… I’m not scandalized…I dont even know the guy…and again…please put these statements forth as your OPINIONS…throwing out Church definitions without being able to name who would be scandalized doesnt back up the argument…SCANDAL…ie…HURT…OFFENDED…MENTALLY HARMED… etc, especially by those you trust …THAT is scandal…ie…gay priests and secret payoffs using Church donations…coverup…THATS SCANDAL…homosexuals adopting children…being allowed to teach grade school… gays kissing and or hand holding in public…while your kids see that…THATS scandal…gay marriage and abortion…THATS scandal…and unless this young man slips up he isnt scandalizing anyone… if there isnt any teaching on the subject…then what we ALL are putting forth is opinion…I just happen to feel mine is more charitable and well thought out, without trying to manipulate rationalization to undermine the Church. But if the poster really wants better advice… let him go and fully explain his situation to the Priest… and if the Priest says fine but he must excerise great care…case closed…if Father says no then let him abide by what the Priest says…But I bet any money that some here would have the gumption to say that if a Priest would say fine…they would say he wasnt a holy priest… I just bet ANY MONEY ON IT.
[/quote]

That’s your opinion. And it is not “faithful to Rome” or to our Catholic faith. It is an ill-informed opinion. I am sure you mean well but you are wrong and you are leading this young man astray.


#18

I think your question was answered thoroughly in the previous thread that was closed. The vast majority of Catholic members clearly state the answer is “no” with regarding to sharing the same bedroom with your fiance, and offered a variety of alteratives to this arrangement (ie. sharing a room with your brother, having your fiance share a room with your sister, getting an air mattress, etc.). The members of the forum mentioned that factors such as sexual temptation and the threat of scandal as being sound reasons for avoiding the arrangment. The Catholic Church does not micromanage when it comes to each individual’s circumstances-- thus
"no sex before marriage" is the clearest we will get. However, the experienced members of the forum are telling you that it will be extremely difficult to maintain chastity while sharing a bedroom with your fiance. Right now you do not share a bedroom with her, so you can assert that you will be “ok” and be able to avoid the temptation. BUT when the temptation is right in front of you, or the circumstances make it easy to sin, it does happen, even when you don’t mean it to happen. You may not have sex with your fiance, but you might engage in other sexual behaviors that are sinful for unmarried people, mainly because you are sharing a living space, and if you have any level of attraction for her, there will be a likehood of sin. AND, you do not mention whether it will be easy for her to share the living space with YOU!! (You might have the strength to avoid the temptations, but what about her??) There is more to avoiding sexual sins than just not having intercourse!

I did not live with my husband before marriage, and I think it was the best decision. We experienced the joys of living together and sharing a room after our marriage, a right that was bestowed upon us when we exchanged vows and made that committment. I think the other members are right in that you need to make the right decision. If you must live in the same house as her, ssk your parents for help in arranging your home to best suit separate rooms for you and your fiance.


#19

Hmm…the church has NO official teaching on this…but yet YOU adopt a holier than thou OPINION that I am UNFAITHFUL to the church…oh…and yet another poster who likes to THINK they use my name against me as if I am in disagreement with the Church…yuck, yuck…gee, THATS never been done before…I told him to take it up with his priest…cause these are NOTHING but our opinions…so dont take yours as being better than mine…I told him to go to a priest,…all you put forth is how valuable you think your opinion is over mine…again…which was…check with the priest…get over yourself. …YAWN…


#20

The answer is NO. No matter how many times Faithful2Rome responds. The answer is still NO. God bless.


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