Living with a Jehovah witness


#150

Hi, Tom!

So, in your view, only Catholics impose their personal views on this country or do you mean that only Catholics cannot impose their personal views?

How do you explain abortion being billed as a constitutional right because it is woman’s health issue not a post conception contraceptive?

Maran atha!

Angel


#151

Do you not see the flaw in such teachings?

Where in Scriptures does it state 'man can die in rejection of God and will be taught, after death, and gain Salvation?

The only time that death is mentioned as part of conversion is here:

9:27 Since men only die once, and after that comes judgement, 9:28 so Christ, too, offers himself only once to take the faults of many on himself, and when he appears a second time, it will not be to deal with sin but to reward with salvation those who are waiting for him. (Hebrews)

Your rendering is your particular brand of theology/understanding so I cannot fault it; however, it is flawed to the peril of humanity. Even if the Church, through zeal, claimed that outside of the Church there’s no Salvation, a theology that teaches salvation after death is no better than tenets of reincarnation where millions or billions of lifetimes will be enjoyed, so ‘sin or reject God, no worries: life cycle number two is up!’

Still, it is my understanding that the Church refers to the Body of Christ (don’t know when exactly this was the same understanding as your claim) as the Church so clearly outside of the Church there’s no Salvation.

Maran atha!

Angel


#152

Tom, could you cite these sources… it seems that Catholics eradicated millions of people for not holding the Catholic Faith… are these not the same numbers of the Spanish Inquisition where thousands upon thousands were burned and tortured?

Maran atha!

Angel


#153

Hi!
Do you recall when a Roman Centurial came to Jesus? What did Jesus do, did He reject the Roman soldier because he was a soldier or because Rome was occupying Israel? No!

Not only did Jesus cure this soldier’s servant but He held him as an example for Israel:

8:5 When he went into Capernaum a centurion came up and pleaded with him. 8:6 ‘Sir,’ he said ‘my servant is lying at home paralysed, and in great pain.’ 8:7 ‘I will come myself and cure him’ said Jesus. 8:8 The centurion replied, ‘Sir, I am not worthy to have you under my roof; just give the word and my servant will be cured. 8:9 For I am under authority myself, and have soldiers under me; and I say to one man: Go, and he goes; to another: Come here, and he comes; to my servant: Do this, and he does it.’ 8:10 When Jesus heard this he was astonished and said to those following him, ‘I tell you solemnly, nowhere in Israel have I found faith like this. 8:11 And I tell you that many will come from east and west to take their places with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob at the feast in the kingdom of heaven; 8:12 but the subjects of the kingdom will be turned out into the dark, where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.’ 8:13 And to the centurion Jesus said, ‘Go back, then; you have believed, so let this be done for you’. And the servant was cured at that moment. (St. Matthew)

…as for rendering to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s, this is evident of their flawed theology as it is Christ’s Command that Christians exist within the confines of the world, rendering to God what is God’s does not mean to hide under a “religious” blanket when matters of government and world’s peace is involved, coming out from under that protection when things are “just fine.”

Maran atha!

Angel


#154

The division that God wants is not due to material things (how the world works):

17:14 I passed your word on to them, and the world hated them, because they belong to the world no more than I belong to the world. 17:15 I am not asking you to remove them from the world, but to protect them from the evil one. 17:16 They do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world. 17:17 Consecrate them in the truth; your word is truth. 17:18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world, 17:19 and for their sake I consecrate myself so that they too may be consecrated in truth. 17:20 I pray not only for these, but for those also who through their words will believe in me. 17:21 May they all be one. Father, may they be one in us, as you are in me and I am in you, so that the world may believe it was you who sent me. (St. John)

Here’s the Holy Division:

10:34 ‘Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth: it is not peace I have come to bring, but a sword. 10:35 For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 10:36 A man’s enemies will be those of his own household. (St. Matthew)
12:30 ‘He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. (St. Matthew)
6:14 Do not harness yourselves in an uneven team with unbelievers. Virtue is no companion for crime. Light and darkness have nothing in common. 6:15 Christ is not the ally of Beliar, nor has a believer anything to share with an unbeliever. (2 Corinthians)

Sadly, you are in caught in that Holy War; coincidentally, what the Jehovah Witnesses fail to accept is that Jesus Founded Church has been edifying the world from her Inception… nations would go to war for trivial things, people were worked till they dropped dead (including children and senior citizens), this was the way of the world (it is still the way of the world where Christ is shun–we can see this everyday in the news). Christ’s Promise of the Kingdom of God is not for man to cease to function on this world but to function in a higher level:

20 For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (St. Matthew 5)

Maran atha!

Angel


#155

Thank you jcrichton,
All this is very helpful it’s so sad that they see everyone non-JW as bad/evil when all over the world from all kinds of religion from all kinds of economic statuses from all ethnic background there are so many wonderful people that love and care for others as God intended us to. I wish he would see that instead of seeing just the bad/mistakes of each person he encounters. That’s no way to live.
Something he keeps nagging at me about is holidays and birthdays how they are so pagan and God disapproves as it is stated on the Bible. As Halloween is right around the corner he started to mention this, I personally didn’t see anything wrong with it, to me it was I got to be anything I wanted and make people laugh with what I had chosen to dress as but never quite understood the whole idea of it. Can you guys help me out here.


#156

Not a good example due to how tainted it is. Try[strike]Remembrance Day.[/strike] Sorry, Veterans Day – Remembrance Day is Canadian name for it.


#157

Hi Jestersage,
I understand that and I personally am not attached to that holiday. Tell me more about remembrance day


#158

The Vulgate uses the Masoretic line of text too. In places where they disagree, the Protestant Bibles sometimes choose the Septuagint version. It would be wrong to say that Protestants deliberately choose to use a anti-Christian line of text.


#159

Hi!

I am glad to be in your corner (I know some of my posting is raw and demanding–I hope you understand that my effort is to shock you into continuing in the Faith and seeking the Truth–consider my effort as that lifeline to a person neck-deep in water… it has to be stern, flexible but unyielding, for the rescue to succeed).

…again, flawed teachings… there’s nowhere in Scriptures that speaks against celebration of any festivities (nor about ‘the evils of gambling’); the lack of information on the lives of Jesus, His Apostles, and the early Church is not due to God’s Commands to refrain from doing so (if this were to be true than that would mean that Jesus [and everyone else] could not tell how old He was, never took a shower, never used the bathroom, never chew-the-cud (had conversations outside of Proclaiming the Good New), never yawned, used drugs (there’s a mention of medic/doctor but no mention of what was used–instruments prescriptions)… and, if we follow their logic, one must believe that Jesus and the Apostles (and all of the people around them) must have eaten only fish, bread, grain, and olives and only drank wine.

The reason why things are mentioned in Scriptures (the wedding at Cana and Herod’s party…) is this:

20:31 These are recorded so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing this you may have life through his name. (St. John)

So trivial things do not matter since they are not conductive to the Salvation Narrative. Yet, it does not mean that things did not take place or that God forbade them:

20:30 There were many other signs that Jesus worked and the disciples saw, but they are not recorded in this book. (St. John)

You see?.. not even all of the things that Jesus said or did were Written–these were left as part of the Oral Teachings!

…just look at this example:

17:24 When they reached Capernaum, the collectors of the half shekel came to Peter and said, ‘Does your master not pay the half-shekel?’ 17:25 ‘Oh yes’ he replied, and went into the house. But before he could speak, Jesus said, ‘Simon, what is your opinion? From whom do the kings of the earth take toll or tribute? From their sons or from foreigners?’ 17:26 And when he replied, ‘From foreigners’, Jesus said, ‘Well then, the sons are exempt. 17:27 However, so as not to offend these people, go to the lake and cast a hook; take the first fish that bites, open its mouth and there you will find a shekel; take it and give it to them for me and for you.’ (St. Matthew)

This passage seems almost inconsequential… but there are chunks of Teachings in it:

  • Jesus Claims Sonship.
    Jesus demonstrated that He was Isaiah’s Suffering Servant.
  • Jesus procured the tax fee through a supernatural way.
  • Jesus paid His and Cephas’s, the rock upon which He Built His Church.
  • Cephas was fully obedient to Jesus.

There are things that we cannot know because there’s no mention in Scriptures; yet, it is because only pertinent matters to the Salvific Plan was Taught through the Oral and Written Teachings of the Apostles.

Maran atha!

Angel


#160

Halloween is said to have originated as all witches hollow–a celebration of the occult. This, as many other festivities, were introduced to N. America by marketing savvy people (as greeting cards and the cooping of Valentine and Nicholas) to promote sales… it has been indoctrinated as the greatest festival celebration by those who both reject God and the Church and seek to line their pockets; the greatest problem is the celebration of evil as a good thing–monsters, witches, ghosts, murderers, and all sort’s of wickedness is placed on a pedestal… that which enslaves us, rules us!

Maran atha!

Angel


#161

Hi!

I stand corrected, partially.

Most Protestant will deny that there is such connection; rather, they will offer that their version of the Bible is the one correct and that the Catholic added books to the correct Bible.

Maran atha!

Angel


#164

…by that logic, we should just chuck the New Testament out; do you forget the Revelation that it is the Holy Spirit that inspires man?

…reason and ignorance tends to cause those misunderstanding and contortions of interpretational theologies… do you truly believe that when Rome occupied Israel, Rome would allow Israel citizens to join their governing body?

Do you ignore the change in world affairs as the Church, Founded by Christ, and lead by the Holy Spirit, became instrumental in curbing man’s practices?

…or do you truly believe that if left alone to his own “devices” man’s goodness will flourish making the world a better place?

Christ, through His Church intercedes to amend the world.

War is a fact of man’s existence; the same religious group that you purport to support God’s true exploit its members, as attested by the story of terror and impotence on this and other instances, and they also do it in the name of God–where is that in Scriptures, and that teaching that you believe Comes from God that his Servants must refrain from engaging the world–unless it furthers their agenda?

Maran atha!

Angel


#165

Clearly that is a wrong interpretation of Scriptures.

Yet, could you explain how the Roe vs. Wade is founded on anything but lies?

Further, if all the justices hold that slavery should be brought back (though it is practiced around the world by “Muslims” and others), would you then say it is constitutional because there was a consensus?

Maran atha!

Angel


#168

…ah, nope… take it back a notch!

This is the Coming of the Messiah not the Parousia:

It is he who is coming on the clouds; everyone will see him, even those who pierced him, and all the races of the earth will mourn over him. This is the truth. Amen.(Apocalypse [Revelation])

When the Messiah was first Revealed to the world this happened:

2:1 Now at this time Caesar Augustus issued a decree for a census of the whole world to be taken. 2:2 This census – the first – took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria, 2:3 and everyone went to his own town to be registered. 2:4 So Joseph set out from the town of Nazareth in Galilee and travelled up to Judaea, to the town of David called Bethlehem, since he was of David’s House and line, 2:5 in order to be registered together with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. 2:6 While they were there the time came for her have her child, 2:7 and she birth to a son, her first born. She wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger because there was no room for them at the inn. 2:8 In the countryside close by there were shepherds who lived in the fields and took it in turns to watch their flocks during the night. 2:9 The angel of the Lord appeared to them and the glory of the Lord shone round them. They were terrified, 2:10 but the angel said, ‘Do not be afraid. Listen, I bring you news of great joy, a joy to be shared by the whole people. 2:11 Today in the town of David a saviour has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord. (St. Luke)

Maran atha!

Angel


#170

You argue well but not in depth.

Outside the Church there’s no Salvation. (done deal)

Anyone who by nature obeys Yahweh God, the Holy Spirit can and does intercede on their behalf–how this works it is on God.

Those of you who reject God and believe there’s nothing after death–hey, more power to you; but, you cannot claim Salvation because it is not fair that hell exists.

Maran atha!

Angel


#173

Wow, our definition of Life is truly different.

I am sorry that you suffered on the hands of bullies… I expect that you do not have/plan to have children, correct?

Maran atha!

Angel


#174

This is part of Faith.

People are quick to judge: “going to hell” or “saved.”

Yet we don’t know what will transpired in the next few minutes, let alone weeks or years from now.

People as your parents and grandparents have have tough experiences removed them from the Path; yet, it is not for me to judge when, how or if the Holy Spirit will re-merge them to the Body of Christ. In the past the Church was made her Declarations, yet, as with Scriptures and Doctrine, they are still being unfolded… the one thing to take into consideration is that the Church does not pronounces anyone in hell; rather, she Teaches and reprimands so that people may avoid damnation.

Maran atha!

Angel


#176

Which connection? Pre-modern Protestants Bibles unquestionably use the Masoretic text which was literally borrowed from the text that Jews were using at the time. Catholics, until the modern era (mostly) have used the same Jewish text, not the Septuagint. In reality it’s a mix. In some areas, the KJV uses Masoretic readings and others uses the Septuagint. Pre-modern Protestant Bibles did not omit the Deutrocanonial Books. This was done in the 1800s in the US.


#177

You’re correct in that the Watchtower isn’t the only church that discourages participation in government. In fact many non-Christians also share this view and choose to adopt a cynical “well my vote doesn’t count and my voice is never heard” approach to politics. I personally don’t think Paul was trying to tell people that they are beholden to whatever regime or dictatorship they happen to be born into, simply because they are citizens of that country. This would lead to countless numbers of Christians being forbidden to leave their country of origin simply because they view it as God’s will for them to be stuck in one place, serving one ruler or leader regardless of what persecution or harm may come their way.

The issue I have with the multiple interpretation approach is that eventually you run into conflicting views of Scripture. If someone chooses to believe that the story of Jonah in the belly of the whale is merely allegory and meant to convey a deeper meaning and didn’t actually occur, this is okay. Likewise, if someone believes that it did occur and Jonah survived in the belly of a large whale or other fish for 3 days, this is also acceptable and these two views don’t contradict one another. However, you can’t take a similar approach on an issue such as baptism and accept two opposing interpretations. Either baptism is needed to enter heaven or it is not, it can’t be both.

The Watchtower’s teachings start becoming problematic because now you have their governing body telling its members that participation in government, voting, military service, standing for the pledge of allegiance etc. etc., is not only discouraged, but it’s unbiblical. Biblical truths revealed by God through Scripture must be universal in their application to the faithful. You can’t have people picking and choosing what they want to believe simply because one teaching if more expedient than another for their lifestyle. This is why we have the thousands of competing denominations that we have today.

Personally I view the Watchtower’s teachings on government as more of an effort to distance themselves from the rest of orthodox Christianity and less on biblical teachings. I don’t view it as inherently bad and it’s not an issue that I focus on when talking with them, but I don’t find the evidence to support such views from Scripture either.


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