Living with a Jehovah witness


#178

Hi, Tom!

I respect your opinion–whatever works for you.

Though the Church does not sentence anyone to hell, it does not mean that everyone is going to Heaven, no matter what choices they make or refuse to make.

As for those who reject/do not Believe God, it is simple: what they don’t believe can’t hurt them; so you can put your personal soft feelings aside and live life.

The reality is that we reap what we sow; blaming the sun for a sunburn is vacuous.

Maran atha!

Angel


#179

Hi!

…if you ask the average non-Catholic on the street (NYC tri-state area) they will state that the Bible has only 66 books; if you press, ‘Catholics added books;’ if you resist, ‘the KJ is the only Bible.’ Of course, there could be the odd one or two who would accept that Jehovah is a derivative of Yahweh and Adonai–just don’t tell them that it was first introduced by a Catholic Monk back in the thirteen hundreds.

Now, if you talk about a Bible scholar (it’s been my experience that more non-Catholics than Catholics go into the field of theology/linguistics in order to further their understanding of Scriptures) there could be a greater number of them accepting the Septuagint as a source (just recently I was surprised by a local pastor who took a small group to the ‘cause of the different variations in Biblical texts’ and he cited the Septuagint as a source).

…I concur with you that the original KJ included the same books as the Catholic Bible; the omission of them however took place previous to the 18 hundreds as Protestants would go back and forth on it (sometimes separating them from the rest of the books and sometimes removing them altogether):

From the Reformation, Protestants have usually excluded the books which Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians consider to be Deuterocanonical, viewing them as non-canonical. However, prior to an 1825 British and Foreign Bible Society decision, most Protestant Bibles did include these additional books within the same printed bibles. It was usually to be found in a separate section under the heading of Apocrypha and sometimes carrying a statement to the effect that the such books were non-canonical. A surviving quarto edition of the Great Bible, produced some time after 1549, does not contain the Apocrypha although most copies of the Great Bible did. A 1575 quarto edition of the Bishop’s Bible also does not contain them. Subsequently, some copies of the 1599 and 1640 editions of the Geneva Bible were also printed without them.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Bible)

Maran atha!

Angel


#180

Great to know. Interesting factoid. Some Orthodox Bibles didn’t contain the Apocrypha either, as they were translated later


#183

The analogy I used with regards to baptism was merely to demonstrate that the opposing views could not both in fact be true. The “exceptions” aren’t given by the church as ways one can attain salvation by willfully choosing to remain outside of the Church. Unfortunately, the bible wasn’t written in way that deals with every situation and circumstance that may arise as to if an individual may be saved.

The Church has attempted, I think validly, to try and address the possibility of what could happen in certain situations with regards to a person who seeks God, but is not familiar with the teachings of the Church. However, I think many have read into these teachings, especially with regards to the Catechism paragraphs you cited, a sort of universal salvation for all, simply because of God’s mercy. I think many of the “modern” teachings on such issues as salvation, have been too ambiguous, with the specific intent of fostering ecumenism.

The Catechism paragraphs 839 and more specifically 841, cite LG 16 (Lumen Gentium) as their basis for the Church’s teaching on salvation with regards to non-Christians. The first point is that in dealing with Jews and Muslims, the Church is attempting to show that they are “related” in various ways. This “relatedness” is not salvific in it’s application.

Second, when dealing with the salvation of the those outside of the Catholic Church, the original Latin document reads as follows:

> #1281 Qui mortem propter fidem patiuntur, catechumeni et omnes homines qui, sub gratiae impulsu, quin Ecclesiam cognoscant, Deum sincere quaerunt et Eius voluntatem implere conantur, salvari possunt, etiamsi Baptismum non receperint. The key phrase “salvari possunt” should be translated as “may be saved” or “can be saved” not as “are saved.” This is how the phrase is translated in the leading English translations of LG 16 and also how it is translated in other places where it appears in the Catechism. The jump from possibility to certainty about the salvation of people in this situation, common as it is, is not warranted by the text. (excerpt taken from Doctrinal Clarity for the New Evangelization: The Importance of Lumen Gentium 16 by Ralph Martin)


#184

Hi, Tom!

Except that it goes contrary to Jesus’ Teaching:

17:15 I am not asking you to remove them from the world, but to protect them from the evil one. 17:16 They do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world. 17:17 Consecrate them in the truth; your word is truth. 17:18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world, 17:19 and for their sake I consecrate myself so that they too may be consecrated in truth. 17:20 I pray not only for these, but for those also who through their words will believe in me. 17:21 May they all be one. Father, may they be one in us, as you are in me and I am in you, so that the world may believe it was you who sent me. (St. John)

It is all good to claim pacifism without being oppressed, terrorized and murdered as the Christians in the East are… it is also all good to take advantage of all the sacrifices made by others and claim ‘following God prevents us from sacrificing ourselves, so go and keep the peace so we may profit from your blood–we will sit back and wait and pray that the world spin itself in an utopian kingdom.’

…as for separatists like the Amish, how hypocritical are they–when they refuse to engage the world they shun till it comes taking advantage of the capital that makes the world go round?

Maran atha!

Angel


#185

jcrichton,
I thank you for your sincerity. This situation is tough and I see that nothing can work if he isn’t open to discussion, yet sometimes he is and I’m scared to speak because it might cause an argument. Yesterday he was feeling bad and I told him to put it in prayer because nothing is impossible for God and that he always listens, and he got even more upset and said that while that is true that there is still Imperfection. How do I help him feel better about himself while showing him that God is good, loving, and caring? I feel like this situation although tough has brought me closer to my faith and seeking out God more. I still feel like I am wrong no matter what I do and there is never really a day we don’t argue, they are just more mellow arguments as we agreed not to fight in front of the kids but it’s still stressful and overwhelming not knowing what I should do when it seems like anything I do is bad and will hurt him. I walk on eggshells crushing them all no matter what step I take.


#186

New World Translation, Matthew 11

25 At that time Jesus said in response:

“I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.+ 26 Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. 27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father,+ and no one fully knows the Son except the Father;+ neither does anyone fully know the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.+ 28 Come to me, all you who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh you. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart,+ and you will find refreshment for yourselves.* 30 For my yoke is kindly,* and my load is light.”


#187

Hi, Gladys!

I was thinking in the terms of your closing thought as I read through your post.

Sadly, this is the position in which he has placed you.

Some people cannot deal with others unless they feel superior or unless others seem or are made to feel inferior to them.

How it happens I do not know–I suspect that, as with everything in life, it is developmental (the more it is engaged the stronger hold it has on the human psyche).

I find that you are correct; it’s the lose-lose scenario (damned if you do; damned if you don’t); the only way you would win (in his eyes) is if you capitulate totally (convert).

However you have hit upon the one merit in your situation:

This is so Biblical!:

8:28 We know that by turning everything to their good God co-operates with all those who love him, with all those that he has ,called according to his purpose. 8:29 They are the ones he chose specially long ago and intended to become true images of his Son, so that his Son might be the eldest of many brothers. 8:30 He called those he intended for this; those he called he justified, and with those he justified he shared his glory. (Romans)

…and is fully in line with what Jesus expects of His Followers:

15:57 So let us thank God for giving us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 15:58 Never give in then, my dear brothers, never admit defeat; keep on working at the Lord’s work always, knowing that, in the Lord, you cannot be labouring in vain.
16:13 Be awake to all the dangers; stay firm in the faith; be brave and be strong. 16:14 Let everything you do be done in love.
(1 Corinthians)

So while you may be forced to endure this onslaught on a daily basis, your Fidelity to the Faith, in Obedience to God, can prove to be the louder Evangelization tool at your disposal.

Check this Command from God:

6:27 ‘But I say this to you who are listening: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 6:28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who treat you badly. (St. Luke)
12:9 Do not let your love be a pretence, but sincerely prefer good to evil… 12:11 Work for the Lord with untiring effort and with great earnestness of spirit. 12:12 If you have hope, this will make you cheerful. Do not give up if trials come; and keep on praying… 12:14 Bless those who persecute you: never curse them, bless them… 12:17 Never repay evil with evil but let everyone see that you are interested only in the highest ideals. 12:18 Do all you can to live at peace with everyone. 12:19 Never try to get revenge; leave that, my friends, to God’s anger. As scripture says: vengeance is mine – I will pay them back, the Lord promises. 12:20 But there is more: If your enemy is hungry, you should give him food, and if he is thirsty, let him drink. Thus you heap red-hot coals on his head. 12:21 Resist evil and conquer it with good. (Romans)

We are to be Faithful to God in all adversities; ambassadors of Christ who Stand prayerfully on His side!

Maran atha!

Angel


#188

I’d suggest this little book for a starter.

Will especially pray for your children. Studies show that children overwhelmingly follow in the religion/faith of their father.


#189

Thank you jcrichton for your encouragement here @6857g. I have been keeping up with this thread and i tear up everytime I read Gladys posts as I feel her pain but cant seem to come up with the encouraging words one needs.

On another note. I talked to a JW last night who 1st contacted me a few weeks ago on a cold call. On the initial contact I told her i was not interested in going back and forth with scripture verses as we both knew our own interpretations were just. So I asked her before we go any further, answering the one question would suffice for now, that question was - how do you know your interpretation is correct? That was a month ago and she called last night to tell me “I dont have an answer for your question, maybe an elder would” and then she closed the conversation politely ans we both said our goodbyes.

Peace!!!


#190

Hi!

This is our call; we must respond according to our abilities (as the Holy Spirit enables us); remember that God does not need us to be “perfect;” it is He Who Perfects us; so if your efforts are as a silent prayer witness you are building the Body of Christ just as much (I would even there say, even more) than those with the gift of eloquence. Just chime in so that Gladys know that she is not alone on her struggle.

…as for your visitor/cold caller… they are deployed as the first line (point men, in military jargon) in the hopes that they line up potentials; they would regroup and send in the big guns (second/third levels) in an effort to convince the candidates that theirs is the true fellowship… when this fails (as in my case) they will send out the heavy guns ("elders of “x” seniority who happen to have been Catholics’–and if they can muster them up, ‘from your native town/country’); they usually don’t give up unless you become ‘persona non grata.’

So don’t forget that I’m in your corner, you can run through here (or PM) any issue they bring to you–don’t forget that we must be patience and loving, even to the point of suffering their assertions that theirs is the true religion (each of us must define that threshold, though). I was amazed at one experience where they insisted in visiting and agreed to work outside of their confined parameters (their choreographed book-Bible study)–it gave me the opportunity to prepare materials (including posting quotes on construction paper and pasting them on the walls [subliminal messages] so that it would hit them head on as they entered the apartment) for the dialogues; of course they would not take anything with them (it’s part of their regiment to reject anything not from their sect).

Maran atha!

Angel


#191

Hi everyone,
I thank you all for your support and prayers. Yesterday wasn’t so bad even though there were some set backs. Tuesday’s my husband has his meetings and Wednesdays I have mass. My eight year old stayed home with me last night and my older one went with my husband along with my two year old (she has no option) we had a great time at home my son the little one and I, we read about angels in a catholic magazine that I had come across not too long ago and we read some bible verses we did prayer and we watched a cartoon video of saint faustina. It was wonderful, he had been feeling lonely and left out at school and I wanted him to see that even when he thinks he’s alone he is not because God loves us so much that he sends us our own very special angel to care for us. His face just lit up with delight. Later that night my husband got home and I went to greet them with joy as I was happy to see them but then he went and sat in the living room by himself and was very serious, I instantly got this feeling of fear over me but as I put my 2yr old to sleep and hugged my oldest goodnight, I prayed and felt more calm. At this little had worked up and I had to feed her then my husband says " come here and sit with me I want to talk to you" in a cheerful voice as to which I said “let me put the baby to sleep and then I’ll join you” he couldn’t wait and came in the room and started sharing how difficult it is to deal with our daughter, that she wants to run around and play and won’t let him focus, he started saying how it was so much better when I would go and that he wished I would go because sometimes he feels like giving up that Jehovah will give him the strength and then mentioned how all the brothers always say to him “don’t give up, we know it’s hard but you can do it” and how they are always willing to help. I then tried to give him a tip as to how I keep her calm and focused during mass I said “try keeping her entertained with what’s going on” when she starts to get fussy I pick her up or sit next to her and say look now they are doing… and she says wow and so I keep her entertained and teach her about mass. He said to this but she had candy before we left and she was unstoppable so I said oh your right and then he started to mention the book of Daniel and how it’s a very prophetic book (I think they are going over it at the meetings) he started to show me about how it talks about different beasts and how they represent different governments and how it’s so accurate and how everyone overlooks them. Do you guys know about these?


#192

Continued:
He also mentioned how at first they were called something that I can’t remember but the point was that it was because they were bringing new light to the Bible. Then he left that topic and at this I was a bit irritated because now the baby was awake and was probably not going to let me sleep till late late and it was already after ten. Then he started to tell me that he wanted to do fun things when teaching the kids about the Bible but that he wasn’t good at it but that this guys that goes to the hall with him does and his kids know our kids and that they invited them to their family meetings and guess what day and what time they do it… yup on Wednesday at 7:30 which is when I go to mass. The only thing that popped in my head was “what a coincidence” which I said out loud and he got upset and started going off about how I think he’s conspiring against me and all that but my thought was that wow how the devil takes anything to his advantage, why now that I was going to start taking my sons back to church so that they grew to know and love God and his true church. But he took it as that I was thinking the worst of him and started saying that if I’m so paranoid about him conspiring against me that it must be because I am conspiring against him and started telling me that that guy has been doing his family study with his kids for years at that time and day. I said I’m sorry but that’s not what I meant when I said was I said but he would not let it go. I then got upset and I tried not to but I had enough, from the moment he got home it was to get me to budge to go to the meetings again and to do things his way. He told my 8yo that he missed out because his friends were there and that they played with his brother and that he had missed out. That’s not fair to say to a little kid plus we had had a wonderful time. I lost it guys living with a Jehovah’s Witness is not easy at all. I then told him just drop it I said that’s the only day I can take them to mass because on Sundays they go with their dad and I can’t take them and now you are telling me that Wednesday’s you want to take them to do family study with other people and that I’m being a dictator for not wanting to let them go so that I can take them to the house of God. To which he said but why are you getting angry in just trying to make things fun for the kids and I need help I don’t know how to make things fun and that guy does. I lost it guys and I’m ashamed. I shouldn’t have raised my voice I shouldn’t have gotten upset. I’m so terrible I’m not being what God has asked me to be. Being good and staying calm is such a tough thing to do I am at awe that Jesus went through much worse and was able to be humble and loving. I am ashamed
If anyone can give me some insight about the beasts that he was talking about please let me know.
God bless you all and thank you for your kind words and prayers you all make me feel loved


#193

It definitely sounds like he’s trying to disrupt your Mass with the kids. Think about it, do you really have to hang out with them on their family study night? If they really cared about helping their kids and your kids to grow spiritually, they would be excited to have another day to “make things fun” about JW things. I don’t question that Wednesday is in fact the day they do their family study, but your husband definitely sounds like he is using this as a way to disrupt what he would consider a bad influence on your kids. JWs are not okay with raising kids in other religions simultaneously with their own.

The meaning of the beasts in Daniel are explained in the book itself. It was a way that God showed His foreknowledge to prophecy what kingdoms would rule in the future. This helps us to know that God is beyond time and knows the end from the beginning. It also talks about the coming of our Lord and God Jesus Christ to come and rule over all and His rule is eternal. JWs try to use prophecies for their advantage for predicting 1914, and the end of the world signs. Christians see the spiritual importance in these prophecies to helps us hope in the Kingdom of God, and to see the futility of the world opposed to God and of the kingdom of the demons.


#196

Hi, Gladys!

…well, I can tell you about a beast that is quite ancient and insidious… it’s the red-eyed monster called manipulation.

First he sets it up:

…you greeted your family with joy and you were met with a resolute stern and joyless demeanor.

Then he throws in the curveball:

Followed by the “poor is me” sympathy hunger:

Surprisingly, there’s a solution that fits perfectly:

…and the trap closes:

…all you have to do to make the world right is give up you Catholic Faith–let your children be brought up in a sect that rejects Christ’s Divinity.

It is difficult to be in you shoes… just through second-hand experience, my blood boils as this organization demolishes and demoralizes their quarry… and people, regardless of their intelligence, fall prey and not only succumb but become complaisant in the doom their cult/sect releases upon the world.

Maran atha!

Angel


#197

Hi, Gladys!

Here’s a Catholic source on the beasts in Daniel 7:

[2] It must be confessed that the historical interpretation of verses 15-27 remains wholly doubtful. It is not even clear whether the four beasts represent four successive empires (like the statue in chapter 2), or four kingdoms existing simultaneously, e.g. the four main divisions of the Macedonian empire after Alexander’s death. The little horn is usually identified with Antiochus Epiphanes (b.c. 176-164), the persecutor of the Machabees; but he was the eighth, not the tenth of his line, and the explanations given of the ‘three horns’ displaced by him seem curiously forced. (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/dan007.htm)

Hey, I just found out that newadvent.org has an on-line Bible, in multiple languages no less! (Greek/English/Latin)

Many times people tend to become “experts” in what Scriptures (specially the “hidden” meanings of things) say; yet, they are simply speculating on what these passages truly mean. However, when they make such claims, as with any cult, their knowledge/understanding is empirical–the only problem is that it is their version of “truth,” not reality.

Maran atha!

Angel


#198

Hi, Tom!

No, the quote is not about opposing anything; it is about the reality that Jesus’ Followers had to face: though not being part of the world (separated by God) they were not removed from the world so they are to engage the world.

It is wrong to claim pacifism and enjoy the peace that it gives when others shed their blood to make sure that “pacifists” can enjoy their peace–and then claim that that’s what God wants them to do?–that’s akin to “flag burners” claiming their “constitutional rights” to burn the flag while debasing those who shed their blood to bring about that “constitutional freedom.”

Maran atha!

Angel


#199

TomMartin,
I will pray for you. God fills a void in you when you seek him from the bottom of your heart and I really hope you find it some day. You have a good heart and I can see that even around your rough edges. God bless you Tom always.


#203

I thought she was being sensible by letting the children go with their father every Sunday while bringing them with her on Wednesday. :man_shrugging:

However i think you are being over simplistic unrealistic from a theoligical standpoint for children. The Catholic Church teaches JWs worships the same God as Catholics do, The JWs teach the opposite of this. Dont you see how this is confusing and disturbing to a young child?

Peace!!!


#204

Hi tom,
You know I had thought about it, about letting alternate Wednesdays. Here’s the thing… the boys go to their dads on Sunday’s so I can’t take them to mass on Sunday’s, Wednesday’s are the only days I can take them. Yet my husband can take them Tuesday’s and wants to take them preaching Saturdays and does bible study with them every other day. If I try to do bible study with the boys and he’s home, they won’t sit and listen but when I do it and he isn’t home it’s a different story. Now ask yourself why is that? Also when they come back from the hall my son usually doesn’t talk to me, just this Tuesday my oldest son went with my husband to the hall but my younger one stayed home. When they got home my husband told him to say hi and to show me his notes. Yesterday my oldest son when he got home he said “man it sucks that we do get to go swimming because today we go to church and then on Tuesday’s with daddy because he’s going to feel bad if no one goes with him.” I felt bad and let them swim for a little while before we left. Now consider this, when he was younger and before we met my husband my oldest son loved going to church, loved cathecism class, bible school in the summer, and was more catholic than me at times, he had so much love for God and for others. Now he’s not the same. Yesterday he was the first one ready to go when we were going to leave, my husband went to the room to talk to them and then he changed. When we got to church he seemed ok but then aftet we sat down he changed he got very serious and didn’t participate. I asked him what was wrong and he said nothing but I could tell he was not happy, he then put his head down and started to cry when mass was over and I asked him what was wrong he kept saying “I don’t know” then I said baby do you not want to come and he said “I don’t know” I talked to him and assured him that I wouldn’t be upset but that he needed to trust me and talk to me so I asked again and he said no. It broke my heart of course but I said ok baby no worries. On our way out the sisters told us that they had free bread in the kitchen to go and get some if we’d like. My oldest didn’t want to but my others were delighted. When we were leaving the sisters said have a wonderful night you guys are wonderful children and my others said thank you and good bye yet my oldest wouldnt look at them and didn’t say anything. It was a very uncomfortable ride home as he was so quiet and angry with me, would ignore anything I said. Then my husband noticed that my son was quiet and asked what had happened I told him nothing had happened and he kept insisting
Continued…


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