Looking for Martin Luther quote


#1

similar to "now there is a theology for every kitchen maid and stable boy..."

If someone could give me the correct quote and cite please.

Thank you and God Bless :signofcross:


#2

[quote="PoorKnight, post:1, topic:301052"]
similar to "now there is a theology for every kitchen maid and stable boy..."

If someone could give me the correct quote and cite please.

Thank you and God Bless :signofcross:

[/quote]

If you can't find it, perhaps it doesn't exist. Martin Luther has had a lot of quotes attributed to him that simply aren't true. The biggest in my view was the "I'd rather be ruled by a competent Turk than an incompetent Christian." This was Pat Robertson attributing the quote to Luther, but there is nothing to prove it, just good ol Pat makin up stuff.


#3

I thought this one was legit... could be wrong though. I'm even, now, hearing some evidence that some of the stuff Tiezl (sp?) said was just made up by some folks too...

Oh well.

Anyone else got a line on this one?

God Bless :signofcross:


#4

“The devil seeing that this sort of disturbance could not last, has devised a new one; and begins to rage in his members, I mean in the ungodly, through whom he makes his way in all sorts of chimerical follies and extravagant doctrines. This won’t have baptism, that denies the efficacy of the Lord’s supper; a third, puts a world between this and the last judgment ; others teach that Jesus Christ is not God ; some say this, others that ; and there are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads.

-Martin Luther “*Werke *” II p 61

I know it’s not that exact quote, but it seems similar.


#5

Be really careful if you use a found quote about Luther in regards to too many sects… Those quotes are usually made up or out of context and if you use them out of context, a smart Lutheran will say to themselves “that can’t be right” and will ask for a source.

Generally, Luther complaind bitterly about how the devil was causing thses sects, not Sola Scriptura.

More info about these false quotes here: beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2007/07/luther-there-are-almost-as-many-sects.html


#6

[quote="babs57, post:4, topic:301052"]
"The devil seeing that this sort of disturbance could not last, has devised a new one; and begins to rage in his members, I mean in the ungodly, through whom he makes his way in all sorts of chimerical follies and extravagant doctrines. This won't have baptism, that denies the efficacy of the Lord's supper; a third,** puts a world between this and the last judgment** ; others teach that Jesus Christ is not God ; some say this, others that ; and there are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads."

-Martin Luther "*Werke *" II p 61

I know it's not that exact quote, but it seems similar.

[/quote]

What is he referring to in bold ?

And what year is Werke II?


#7

#8

Luther pretty much blamed everything on the devil. But he also referred to people as devils:

“…the devils on the roofs of the houses were rather friendly…than otherwise.” (Cambridge History II, 147 as quoted at newadvent.org on Martin Luther)

His complaint was that there were people who thought they knew more than Martin Luther did. He was extremely inflexible in his dogmatism. (Unless it was he, himself, who was disagreeing with himself.)


#9

[quote="Porknpie, post:6, topic:301052"]
What is he referring to in bold ?

And what year is Werke II?

[/quote]

I believe the referrence is to purgatory. About the other, the origional quote is in "The letter of Dr. Martin to the Christians of Antwerp", of which I can find no copy online. I believe "Werke II" is probably a collection of works. I found the referrence in the site that benjohnson links to, (above). It is about false quotes.


#10

I think that’s the one, thanks.

I’m not using it to ‘disprove’ Sola Scriptura. I’m using it in a paper as a flavor quote - I.E. my evidence is not based off the quote, the quote is just there as example of the evidence - of when a group of people throw off an authority that is outside themselves and put authority in themselves (or their own interpretation) it leads to 38,000 different ways of looking at the same thing.

I’m not bashing Luther or the reformers. I think I actually do a very fair job of presenting their possition but I cannot ignore the inherit flaws either. Their intent was good: reform. The result is 38,000 ways to “get saved”…

Thanks for the quote. God Bless :signofcross:


#11

[quote="Porknpie, post:6, topic:301052"]
What is he referring to in bold ?

And what year is Werke II?

[/quote]

I believe Werke II refers to Luther's Works. As for the world between, probably Purgatory. that said, luther's bigger complaint regarding Purgatory, ISTM, were the things wrapped around it - indulgences, private masses, and the like.

Jon


#12

[quote="JonNC, post:11, topic:301052"]
I believe Werke II refers to Luther's Works. As for the world between, probably Purgatory. that said, luther's bigger complaint regarding Purgatory, ISTM, were the things wrapped around it - indulgences, private masses, and the like.

Jon

[/quote]

Thanks Jon. Help me more on Luther. He believed in purgatory but not having to pay for indulgences? Thoughts?

Time to go to Adoration. Back later.

Pork.

(also, do you know of any LCMS churches where there is scheduled private confession times?; thanks again for the article. My friend says that they do "NOT" confess privately but I haven't given her the article yet. She was a bit grumpy today and I thought better to wait).


#13

=Porknpie;9870586]Thanks Jon. Help me more on Luther. He believed in purgatory but not having to pay for indulgences? Thoughts?

I may have overstated it a bit. Without scriptural support, Luther and the reformers all spoke against the idea of an intermediate state/place, while affirming a belief in a cleansing at the moment of death for entry to heaven. He clearly rejected the paying for indulgences.

Time to go to Adoration. Back later.

May you be blessed in His presence.

(also, do you know of any LCMS churches where there is scheduled private confession times?; thanks again for the article. My friend says that they do “NOT” confess privately but I haven’t given her the article yet. She was a bit grumpy today and I thought better to wait).

Most would make it available via appointment, but here:
grace-lcms.org/worship_times.asp

sites.google.com/site/goodshepherdlcms/privateconfessionandabsolution

And this may help with your friend:
weedon.blogspot.com/2007/07/private-confession-and-absolution.html

And, of course, from the Augsburg Confession

Article XI: Of Confession.

1] Of Confession they teach that Private Absolution ought to be retained in the churches, although in confession 2] an enumeration of all sins is not necessary. For it is impossible according to the Psalm: Who can understand his errors? Ps. 19:12.

Jon


#14

At my LC-MS church, the pastors are always ready to hear private confession. They wish that the private confession box would have been retained.


#15

[quote="hn160, post:14, topic:301052"]
At my LC-MS church, the pastors are always ready to hear private confession. They wish that the private confession box would have been retained.

[/quote]

In a small number of Lutheran parishes, it is being returned.

Jon


#16

I'm no help locating the quote except to second the warning to be careful of sources of alleged Luther quotes. I embarassed myself rather well some years back referring to an apparently mythical quote where Luther compared those saved by Christ as "dung heaps covered by pure white snow." (an image meant to convey a legal transferrence of purity rather than the catholic view of interior sanctification).

To my surprise, the quote appears to be apocryphal! Embarassing. Luther scholars find that it DOES rather sound like their man, but try as I did, I couldn't find an actual substantial citation for it. Instead I found many more like me puzzled at finding it to be a legend. They are out there...


#17

Yeah, Tim Staples seconded the stuff about bad quotes about Luther... And Tietzl (sp?) Mr. Staples stated in a recent Open-Forums that there seems to be some evidence that Tietzl never said "When the coin in coffer rings, a soul from Purgatory springs" or some of his other infamous sayings.

So I guess we need to be extra careful about what we quote from whom... especially from the internent.


#18

I wonder how many of us would choose to belong to the Catholic Church at the time of Luther?


#19

[quote="mgteich, post:18, topic:301052"]
I wonder how many of us would choose to belong to the Catholic Church at the time of Luther?

[/quote]

I don't think you had much choice - generally you belonged to the church of your town. People didn't really pickup and move as much as we do now days.


#20

It probably depends on your understanding of what church IS. If a church is defined by the people leading it, then it’s surely understandable when people leave if those leaders a doing a poor job. But if the church is something willed into existence by God and is has a reality far more deeper and more profound than merely the opinions and personalities of its leaders, then you’d not be doing yourself or Him any favors by striking out on your own, would you?

But as somebody else above implied, in Luther’s day most of us here would be illiterate peasants, so who KNOWS what we’d be thinking…


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