Los Angeles Times: Conservative opposition to Pope Francis spurs talk of a schism in the Catholic Church

Conservative opposition to Pope Francis spurs talk of a schism in the Catholic Church

Of all the recent attacks launched by conservatives against Pope Francis, one stood out more than most.

It came from a German cardinal who is one of the most powerful men in the Vatican. And it underlined a growing backlash in the church to some of Francis’ more progressive ideas — a backlash led largely by German and American bishops who fear the pope may be overturning centuries of doctrine on divorce, among other matters.

The cardinal, Gerhard Mueller, the pope’s own doctrinal chief, made it clear in an interview in February that he firmly opposed Francis’ tinkering with the church’s ban on divorced and civilly remarried Catholics taking Communion.

Francis has implied that the ban could be relaxed. But Mueller told Il Timone, an Italian Catholic publication: “No power in heaven or on earth, neither an angel, nor the pope, nor a council, nor a law of the bishops, has the faculty to change it.”

As Francis enters his fourth year in office, his conservative opponents have chosen to stand and fight over his 2016 apostolic exhortation titled “Amoris Laetitia,” or “The Joy of Love,” in which he suggested bishops can use discretion in granting Communion to Catholics who divorce, then remarry in a civil ceremony.

Francis’ guidance was seen by many as contradicting the ruling, which dates to the early days of the Roman Catholic Church, that couples are living in sin if they remarry, because their first marriage is still valid in the eyes of the church.

latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-pope-conservatives-2017-story.html

:thumbsup:

As for talks of schism, I don’t believe there will be a schism, since there is only One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, so to schism from Christ’s Church would simply be adding heresy on top of heresy.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

Los Angeles Times is a pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage mainstream liberal media

The Holy Father belongs to God!

Pray to God for help for everyone involved.

1 Like

Just like World Bank?

But the event has been criticized for its lack of Catholic focus, for projecting images on one of the most sacred facades in the Christian world on one of the most holy days in the Church’s calendar, and for being supported by the World Bank that actively promotes and funds policies diametrically opposed to Church teaching (it has long-promoted and funded abortion and contraception programs). There’s also unease over the emphasis on climate change and that the Church is entering into that scientific debate which is considered to be beyond her competence.

National Catholic Register
ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/vatican-light-show-to-focus-on-climate-change

Or Paul Ehrlich?

Paul Ehrlich, author of The Population Bomb, and John Bongaarts of the Population Council will speak at a conference later this month

Two advocates of population control have been invited by pontifical academies to speak at the Vatican.

The Catholic Herald
catholicherald.co.uk/news/2017/02/10/population-control-activists-to-speak-at-the-vatican

How about Joe Biden?

VATICAN CITY — Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. came to this tiny city-state to talk about two of his deepest passions: his Roman Catholic faith and curing cancer.

At the Third International Regenerative Medicine Conference at the Vatican, Mr. Biden spoke about the urgent need to come up with new cures for cancer, a subject that has come to define his final year in office.

The conference is intended to highlight the extraordinary research advances being made with adult stem cells while largely sidestepping the issue of research using fetal tissue or embryonic stem cells.

“Most importantly, we want everyone to understand that no one has to choose between science and faith,” Dr. Robin Smith, president of the Stem for Life Foundation and one of the organizers of the three-day conference, said in a welcoming speech Tuesday.

It is precisely the sort of delicate dance with faith Mr. Biden has performed his entire life — embracing Catholicism along with abortion rights and gay marriage. The Obama administration, for instance, continues to support funding for fetal tissue research, which is opposed by Catholics and many who oppose abortion.

nytimes.com/2016/04/30/world/europe/joe-biden-speaks-about-faith-and-curing-cancer-at-the-vatican.html

The first time I met Pope Francis was in 2013 when I attended his inauguration in Vatican City. After the ceremony, the other government representatives and I stood in line in the Basilica to greet the Holy Father at the foot of the altar. When it was my turn to greet Pope Francis, he reached out his hand and embraced mine. Then he said warmly, “Mr. Vice President, you’re always welcome here.”

That’s the message Pope Francis is sending to the world. He’s put a welcome sign on the front door of the Church.

Pope Francis is taking us back to the basics. He emphasizes what I have always believed to be the central mission of our faith—Catholic Social Doctrine—that cuts across all confessional faiths: What you do to the least among us, you do unto me; we have an obligation to one another; we cannot serve ourselves at the expense of others; we have a responsibility to future generations.

time.com/4047605/joe-biden-pope-francis-is-challenging-us

In the context of abortion:
YES.

Exactly so.

But there’s nothing here that is weird or that is an example of liberal buffoonery.

I don’t understand your reasoning.

Schism exists and is a real possibility in every generation of the Church. The four signs of the Church are irrelevant to that fact.

The media has gone from reporting the news, to directly pushing their agenda. Part of their agenda is relativism, nothing is absolutely true or false, right or wrong. They are not in agreement with Pope Francis, or any other pope. Pope Francis does believe in absolute truths, and morality, not relativism, as does the Catholic Church (and formerly, all Christianity).

But the media constantly tries to undermine the Church by highlighting disagreements. They don’t report on the disagreements, they try to exaggerate disagreements in the minds of Catholics. Their purpose is to show the Church itself as divided, that everything’s just a matter of opinion, to reduce confidence in the Church. To do that, they painted Pope Benedict as an extreme conservative, ignoring all data that did not suit their purpose, which was bringing the Church to division.

The reality is there have always been disagreements, groups have broken off in every generation. Recent schisms include groups who regard the papacy as vacant, or too liberal, or too conservative, or too neglectful of their ethnic group, or too Marian, or not Marian enough, too charismatic, not charismatic enough, too biblical, too fundamentalist, too ritualist, or too this, and not enough that. Conservative opposition to Pope Francis is far less than conservative opposition to Pope Paul VI. But it does not sell newspapers to point that out.

So, yes, schisms may happen or under constant threat of happening under Pope Francis, as they have for all his predecessors. With an organization as large as the Catholic Church, that is inevitable. As G. K. Chesterton pointed out, those who disagree with the Catholic Church invariably give opposite-to-each-other, contradictory reasons for doing so.

For example, we all know that communion for the divorced and remarried is wrong, it’s heresy (Couldn’t be any clearer in the scriptures and the Church has always held true to it), since it contradicts the sacrament. It’s either till death do they part or it’s not, in sickness and in health or not. God does not break His promises, even if us unfaithful humans do. For those who are divorced and remarried (living in adultery) I would encourage Eucharistic Adoration.

As for a schism, if there were to be a schism, it would be simply adding heresy on top of heresy since Christ founded the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

this is where guys like Joe Biden go wrong… He stated:

*Pope Francis is taking us back to the basics. He emphasizes what I have always believed to be the central mission of our faith—Catholic Social Doctrine—that cuts across all confessional faiths: What you do to the least among us, you do unto me; we have an obligation to one another; we cannot serve ourselves at the expense of others; we have a responsibility to future generations.
*

The central mission is to the Truth of Jesus Christ and to spread that Truth via evangelization.

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I find it rather curious that when conservative Traditional Catechesis is upheld it is tantamount to Schism, yet when some Priest, Nun, Theologian or Cleric dissents from the perennial Teachings it is lauded as forward thinking and inclusive.
George Orwell would be amazed how far off he was.

A schism is only wishful thinking for the fake news outlet “LA Times”

No one even talkss of SChism except these liars. I would not worry about any Bishoops leaving the church over this!

We will all stay and fight for the truth to prevail, because it will

They only wish. I don’t like some of what the Pope says, but I’m certainly not going somewhere else to find a ‘better’ church. There can be only one, and regardless of my personal feelings about the Holy Father’s political views, I ain’t goin’ nowhere.

The Church survived the Borgias and Pope Leo X; it will survive Francis.

:ehh:

Cardinal Burke on 12/19/16: “There is a very serious division in the Church which has to be mended because it has to do with, as I said before, fundamental dogmatic and moral teaching. And if it’s not clarified soon, it could develop into a formal schism.”

And what you think Cdl Burke is going to become a schismatic!!! That is laughable!

There have always been and always will be Catholics who give up turn tail and job ship because of some illl perceived issue. We will not see a mass schism of Bishops leaving the church over this. They will stay and fight for truth and Church to win the day. This will not be resolved by PF. AL will be revised and cleaned up to stop the confusion by a future Pope if not by PF.

Cheers!:thumbsup:

Um, no – what’s laughable is your following claim given what Cardinal Burke has said in public interviews:

“These liars” clearly aren’t the only ones speaking about schism.

Is EWTN’s National Catholic Register “fake news” to you?

The Schism Nobody Sees Coming
ncregister.com/blog/pat-archbold/the-schism-nobody-sees-coming

They are considered by the media-bias factcheck source as “left-center” with a very “high” ranking of accurate, factual reporting.
They don’t have an official stance on abortion laws or marriage laws, from what the reporters and editors there tell me.

They would definitely be considered “mainstream” media trying to appeal to a general audience as opposed to, say, LIfesite “news” which targets a smaller, more specific audience.

.

The LA Times tries to “appeal” to a general audience, in terms of attracting readers and advertisers. But they try to pull the mainstream towards the Left.

So yes, they attract more people than Lifesite News (why did you put that word “News” in quotations?) because they have far greater resources. But they are equally ideologically driven; you could say, equally biased. Just because they are vastly bigger, does not mean they don’t have an agenda.

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