[quote="Tyrion, post:6, topic:312775"]
One does not analyze "love", one does it, lives it and feels it. When two people express their love for each other (be they married or not, be of different genders or the same) there is NO need to mix it with procreation. It can be, of course, but it is not a prerequisite.
When a couple is infertile, when there is absolutely no chance of conception, the love can still be there. If the uterus was removed, and conception is impossible, there is absolutely no reason to be "open" to something that cannot happen. This "requirement" is absurd!
Love is sitting by the fireside, or looking at the sunset, no need for words any more, because one can start a sentence, and the other one can finish it. Yet, this kind of love is condemned if the physical expression of it is not "open" to an impossible procreation.
That is the point here!
Or, rather, one of the points. If one takes the bible at least somewhat seriously, then God slaughtered children, toddlers, newborns - indiscriminately! God declares that he will visit the sins of the fathers until the seventh generation. That is not "love", that is unjust and cruel. A just judge never puts the children or grandchildren into jail for the transgression of the father.
The important point of this thread is that you try to bring the "good news" to the world, you attempt to evangelize, to convince the non-christians and non-catholics, how "wonderful" God is, and how "loving" he is. But you speak a language which no one understands. Love is not indiscriminate slaughter, no matter what the transgressions of the fathers might have been!
The actual expression of love, even if "procreation" is not part of it, does not become "disordered" or "mortally sinful". It is just simple, good, old fashioned L-O-V-E!
This is tragic. you really believe this stuff. really. okay the number of misconceptions in this short statement you have made is huge. I hardly know where to begin because if you have this many misconceptions in your logic you are not likely to listen to anything anyone says, but...
I always find this objection strange (just my opinion) it is out of left field and comparing apples with hand grenades. You are comparing the nature of homosexual relations in the biological necessity of there barren, un-procreative, selfish (yes I said that there is no gift to the other. The whole act becomes as selfish as a heterosexual couple who contracept) acts to a loving heterosexual couple who cannot have kids through no fault of there own because of a fairly rare medical necessity that is entirely beside the biological hardwired nature of the relation.
As pointed out earlier there are different kinds of love which are appropriate to different classes of people. the kind of love where people know each other well enough to finish each others sentences is not necessarily erotic love. Good friends, fathers, mothers, sons & daughters all these relations can fall into that category. The proper physical expression of these relations is not condemned in its physical expression. You just have a poor(in my opinion) understanding of what that expression should be.
And the huge misconception that atheists, who want to live without restraint and make us live as if its right so they don't feel bad, is that God is unjust. Yet they refuse to analyse God almighty and eternal in light of Jesus the Christ and what he said and did. The coming of Christ is THE pivotal moment in history. That is why we wrap time around this moment. that is why all of history is measured by its distance from this moment.
The Old Testament cannot find its proper expression outside of the person of Jesus Christ. (Augustine, or the current holy father, both explain that the Old Testament is revealed in the new and the new is concealed in the old.)
Consider what was going on in these cultures in the old testament. Whole cultures were openly warring with God's people. It was an open war scenario. Read Maccabees sometime. Even if you don't think they are inspired books they are a great history of what was going on at the time. Constant warfare. The nation of Israel was hounded by its adversaries for 100's of years. People who scarified children among other humans ritually. and of course who can forget the fertility gods. murdering what could be described as children, and women during ritual intercourse (I choose not to get more explicit on a forum children might read.) If these cultures were not destroyed they would have completely destroyed Israeli, and tried on several occasions. Its right there in the bible.
I don't see any indiscriminate slaughter in anything God ever commanded. I have read the book which is a blow by blow account with so much wrong on both sides that God himself has to come down here and straighten it out (read the Jesus event).
your whole post is just misconception from beginning to end. You don't have a legitimate case your just blowing off steam.
If I did not know better (and I don't) I would ask what homosexual activist was the source of these accusations. :shrug: