Love is the only thing that has any value at all

In Heaven, we are promised everything except for the one thing that has any value at all and that is love.

I don’t care about streets of gold, or beautiful music or any amount of treasure. I only want Love and to be loved and that is the one thing that Jesus has promised that will be absent in Heaven.

No thank you.

When I read visions and descriptions of Heaven, what sticks out the very most in my mind is not how beautiful or peaceful it is, or how the sounds have colors or how sweet the music is, or even how beautiful we will be to God.

What sticks out the very most in my mind is how absolutely lonely and utterly void of love it is there. I have never read or heard a single description of Heaven ever that has sounded the least bit appealing. They have all sounded so infinitely lonely and depressing. Going by the descriptions given, it seems that the only difference between Heaven and Hell is the severity of suffering.

Heaven is Fullness of Communion with God
Heaven as the fullness of communion with God was the theme of the Holy Father’s catechesis at the General Audience of 21 July 1999. Heaven “is neither an abstraction not a physical place in the clouds, but a living, personal relationship with the Holy Trinity. It is our meeting with the Father which takes place in the risen Christ through the communion of the Holy Spirit,” the Pope said.

  1. When the form of this world has passed away, those who have welcomed God into their lives and have sincerely opened themselves to his love, at least at the moment of death, will enjoy that fullness of communion with God which is the goal of human life.

As the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, "this perfect life with the Most Holy Trinity this communion of life and love with the Trinity, with the Virgin Mary, the angels and all the blessed is called “heaven’. Heaven is the ultimate end and fulfilment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness” (n.1024).

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

Peace

Hi Jeremyah,

I think you might be confusing heaven with a place. Its not actually a place, but a state of being, where we see God face-to-face-- God, who IS love. We were created for God, because He had so much love, He wanted to share it.Once we spend our lives on earth loving Him, we get to spend an eternity doing it in His presence…. and continually receiving His love!

Harps, music, chocolate clouds in the sky (:D), are all very earthly images, trying to explain something wonderfully supernatural. All love comes from God, and its given to all who ask for it. Heaven isn’t just “no suffering”, its the everlasting joy of being loved.

I kind of get that but it’s the very fact that people use those terms to try to explain it that I find to be so troubling.

I have spent my entire life single. I have wanted more than anything else in this life to marry. I have long since gotten to a point that I have given up on that because it’s more painful to hope for it and be continually disappointed than it is to resign myself to being single my whole life.

I know all about the false, phony love of ‘being loved by Jesus’ while my deepest needs go unmet. If there is anything that being single has taught me, it is that I absolutely don’t want to spend eternity this way. Absolutely not.

When people go to describing Heaven in turns of harps and music, what I’m hearing that there aren’t lovers there. Instead, we are given a bunch of utterly worthless toys to try to distract us from the endless absolute Hell of spending eternity missing out on what it is to be truly loved, to truly belong to someone.

All love comes from God, and its given to all who ask for it. Heaven isn’t just “no suffering”, its the everlasting joy of being loved.

I’ve asked for love continually my entire life and have been continually denied. Jesus said in Mark 12:25 that this denial of love is eternal.

As Heaven has been described, I don’t see it as ‘no suffering’ but instead ‘infinite suffering, just not as bad as Hell.’

Not really sure you can say that. If it is not a “place”, where is the glorified body of Jesus, of Mary, of Elijah, of Enoch, and where will ours be after the last judgment?

Seems to me a thing, like a glorified body, has to take up space, and if it takes up space in must be some “place”. Just thinkin’ out loud here.

But where is the promise of MY lover? Where is the promise of the one that I’ll belong to exclusively? Where is the promise of the one that will love me exclusively? I want someone to love me and to love them and belong to them and no other and them me and no other, like husband and wife. A deep personal love that is for me and me only.

In Heaven, all I ever hear or read about is the eternal denial of that deep personal love and instead, an eternity of something deeply impersonal and uncaring and ultimately utterly lonely.

Hey, HEY NOW!!! What’s with all the hating on harps and music!? :smiley:

:harp::harp: :heaven: :harp::harp:

Seriously, I have understood Heaven to be the place, or state of being, if you will, in which we are consumed totally in LOVE, exactly the place in which our deepest needs and yearnings will finally find fulfillment and rest in which there will be no more separation between people, but we will be better able than ever to love one another and feel and be loved in return.

I think maybe you are thinking more in terms of romantic, one on one love, and marriage, however? Is it that Jesus said there will be no marriage in heaven?

What exactly do you mean when you say Love? Love is a feeling I have a hard time with, actually I don’t feel it at all. Even though I have a family and I know I love them more than anything, I can’t “feel” it inside. I know I do not love myself at all.

They say God loves me, but I don’t feel his love in my heart. Does it mean he doesn’t love me if I can’t feel it?

Do you have to feel love to have love or to be loved?

What is love really? What is the value of love? :confused:

Yeah, that’s it. I find that to be the most beautiful thing in the universe and the concept of spending eternity missing out on that is the very most, utterly depressing thing in the world to me.

I missed out on that in this life. I don’t have any desire to spend eternity missing out on that as well. I don’t have any problems with Jesus’ moral teachings and I strive to be a good Catholic and a good servant. But I’d would rather do that and let that be it’s own reward. I absolutely do NOT want the eternity he promises as a reward. Absolutely not. If he gave me the choice between that “romantic” love and all the riches in the universe, I would forsake the riches for my lover. But it seems he’s not giving us a choice. He promises the riches but we’ll have to spend eternity without a lover. I don’t want it. I want to die and just be gone forever. One life of missing out on that is enough. More than enough.

I would rather have never have been born that spend eternity with an infinite amount of ‘riches’ while being denied my deepest heart’s desire and longing.

We were never promised any such thing. :frowning:

Believe me, Jeremyah, I feel for you. The last ten years of my life have been a series of disasters with the people who should have loved me the most. Yes, I was married, but it wasn’t a good marriage and I’ve had to face that he was occupied with other woman quite possibly from the very start, that he may have married me only because I was pregnant, or to get himself a green card. In short, it was hardly a marriage that left me feeling loved or that the love I gave to him was valued. Hence, I feel much like you, that I have never known, and will never know the beautiful and devoted love of husband and wife. It does hurt, especially when I see it all around me.

But I know friends with devoted loving husbands, and they’re being hammered with other things–a child with cancer, injuries, illness, financial problems, while I and my children have all enjoyed relatively good health, few injuries, and have never known the horror of thousands upon thousands of dollars of medical bills hanging over us.

I have learned that we all get hit by something in life. And we all have gifts and blessings in this life. I don’t know if I’ll ever be married again, and if I don’t, I don’t know if I’ll spend my life feeling that loss or if I’ll reach contentment with being single. But I do know that I still have a reason for being on earth, and things God expects of me, and goodness that I can give to other people. I go play my harp (yes, I really do play harp :smiley: ) or I work harder at listening to my children or letting someone go ahead of me in traffic or praying for someone else–anything at all that will put some good into this world.

I know it hurts, and I know my words may only sound preachy right now, but please remember it’s coming from someone very much in your shoes.

How old are you?

My prayers will be with you.

Love means seeking someone’s highest good.

It’s not a feeling that you have for someone but an action. But at the same time, there is such a feeling as ‘being loved.’

I know of nothing greater and more beautiful than being wanted, desired, longed for, held by the woman that one desires. Being denied such an experience for all eternity is not love. I don’t will that on anyone. I have spent my entire life being denied that experience and the pain of this is unending.

All the ‘treasures’ in Heaven and earth can’t even began to compare to that and there is no pain greater than being denied that for all eternity. I don’t want an afterlife.

In as much as I serve God, I guess I do it to escape Hell. But I wish to escape ‘Heaven’ as well. I absolutely do not want to spend eternity being denied that. That, to me, is Hell.

Do you not now that God himself is love. If we go to heaven then we will see the source of love. I want to go to heaven because God is there and he is love. Heaven might be a nice place but that is nit the reason we want to go there. What is you definition of love

Exactly. Instead we have been threatened with the eternal Hell of an eternity of being denied that. That is not love.

Believe me, Jeremyah, I feel for you. The last ten years of my life have been a series of disasters with the people who should have loved me the most. Yes, I was married, but it wasn’t a good marriage and I’ve had to face that he was occupied with other woman quite possibly from the very start, that he may have married me only because I was pregnant, or to get himself a green card. In short, it was hardly a marriage that left me feeling loved or that the love I gave to him was valued. Hence, I feel much like you, that I have never known, and will never know the beautiful and devoted love of husband and wife. It does hurt, especially when I see it all around me.

And Jesus promises an eternity of that same pain.

I have learned that we all get hit by something in life. And we all have gifts and blessings in this life. I don’t know if I’ll ever be married again, and if I don’t, I don’t know if I’ll spend my life feeling that loss or if I’ll reach contentment with being single. But I do know that I still have a reason for being on earth, and things God expects of me, and goodness that I can give to other people. I go play my harp (yes, I really do play harp :smiley: ) or I work harder at listening to my children or letting someone go ahead of me in traffic or praying for someone else–anything at all that will put some good into this world.

I try to bring good into the world with my life to but I don’t really know why sometimes. I would rather be able to do this without being threatened with an eternity of absolute Hell as a my reward. I absolute do NOT want to live after death considering that Jesus wants to visit this hateful curse on us forever.

I know it hurts, and I know my words may only sound preachy right now, but please remember it’s coming from someone very much in your shoes.

I didn’t see any preaching in your words. Just you agreeing with me that it hurts.

How old are you?

  1. That’s long enough to know that an eternity more of this is absolutely not anything I desire on any level.

My prayers will be with you.

I don’t know what good that’s going to do. You think Jesus will change his mind and not damn us to the same blackened Hell for all eternity if we beg enough?

We always want what we can’t have…

I feel the same in some ways. Like to be wanted and desired etc… and I am married. But I don’t feel loved at all nor do I feel my own love. I don’t feel like I am loveable. That to me that is pain and it leads me to feeling nothing but emptiness and despair. But just because you have a spouse it doesn’t guarantee all your lifes desires will be fulfilled. More than anything I wish I could feel God’s love. Just hearing someone say he loves me doesn’t make me feel loved by Him. I still want to believe he loves me though and wish I could be in Heaven with Him right now. It has to be much better than what is here on earth.

I struggle with the value of prayers, too, sometimes, but what’s the option? To quit praying? As the apostles said to Jesus when faced with hard words: Where else am I going to go?

I don’t see the lack of marriage in Heaven as a threat. That’s the difference. I believe I will love and be loved in return, in a more profound way than anything I can ever experience on Earth. It’s a mistake to think that we can grasp, conceive of, or understand Heaven with our earthly knowledge. I trust that whatever awaits me in Heaven, it will give me fulfillment and happiness.

Like I said in the post right before this one, it’s seeking someone’s highest good.

I have missed out on the ‘romantic’ love between men and women and cruelly forced to endure missing out on this for an entire eternity for God’s own personal amusement is not what I would call seeking my highest good.

If God is love, then I want a part of God exclusively to myself that is entirely Feminine. In eternity, I don’t want to think or know of God as he but as She.

I really don’t think that’s going to happen though and I would rather just die and be gone than be ‘rewarded’ with the eternal suffering of having my deepest longings eternally denied.

Ever since I was a child, I wanted nothing more in this life than to get married. I prayed for that for as long as I can remember.

I came from a very disfunctional family and my father was quite abusive to me. He was always putting me down, belittling me, telling me that everyone was always making fun of me, always screaming and hollering sometimes beating me. He slapped me on the face quite often. My mother has always just kind of ignored me and to this day, she doesn’t seem to be aware of just how entirely abusive my father was.

I knew from a young age that my family was doing nothing to prepare me for marriage in anyway at all and so I turned to the people on staff at the protestant establishment where I grew up. (I’m a convert to Catholicism). They wouldn’t do anything at all to help. They wouldn’t even pray for me. From the time I was a child until I deconverted in my late teens-early twenties, they told me over and over again that Jesus didn’t want me to have a girl friend or ever get married for a number of reasons like “he wants to be your lover,” “your so special to him that he wants to keep you all to himself,” “you don’t need a wife, he gave you all you needed when he died on the cross,” “he’s going to give you a greater and ‘spiritual blessing’ instead,” or my favorite, “he wants to keep you single because that will bring HIM greater glory.”

Of course, I could not hope for the after life because of that verse that those people would often repeat to me with a smile, “there will be neither marriage nor given in marriage because we’ll be just like the angels.”

And they would do this while every Sunday, endlessly celebrating the blessing of marriage that God had given them during the services while I sit there crying my heart out to God not to leave me alone.

But he did. He knew my deepest longings, left me alone and in the presence of people that joyfully rubbed my nose in the blessings that God was showering down upon them while denying me those same blessings.

I would have done anything to please God but nothing I tried to do to please Him made the slightest bit of difference.

There’s nothing in the world that feels worse that being dragged from a horrible and abusive home life once a or more a week to having everyone around you celebrating that love that God gave them while constantly telling you that you get to eternally miss out on it so that the ‘lord’ can be glorified.

I was so lonely, so hurting, so longing to be loved and those people jumped around smiling and praising God, endlessly celebrating and getting up giving their testimonies about how God lead them together. And then they would turn around and say, “but Jesus doesn’t want any of that for you so that HE can be more greatly glorified. And it’s going to be that way FOREVER!!!”

And I was just a child. It was before I had even lived long enough that I could have actually done anything to have deserved anything like that.

It was like being born into Hell and then being dragged to Heaven to get to see what you were missing out on and being constantly told you were going to miss out on that forever. And then being sent back into Hell for another week to only come again next week to go through the same thing. (I know why they did that. It was because it was easier to tell me that than to actually help me with the problems I needed help with).

The entire time they were doing this, they’d keep telling me, “but Jesus LOVES you.” I have come to view this love as being false, phony and uncaring. I do not see this as love in any real sense at all.

When people speak of the love of God in Heaven, absent of marriage, I think of my childhood experiences. I don’t want this at all. Not for a single second, let alone eternity. I want REAL love, caring, intimate, personal love.

If I must be denied forever, fine, but why can’t I be released of this absence of love upon death? Why must I have to endure it forever?

I have never heard or read that heaven was anything other than a place of love, especially for those who have experience in coming before Jesus Christ.

They expressed the love and compassion he brought them as nothing they ever knew on earth.

Those here on earth who have had the experience of Jesus revelation, also have expressed that it was his love and compassion that they first experienced and it was beyond anything they could describe.

So, I don’t know were the OP gets the idea that heaven isn’t a place of love.

After all, the act of salvation given to us through Jesus Christ, was act of love in the highest degree.

Jim

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