luke 1:47 ?


#1

If Mary is without sin why does she need a savior?


#2

Mary was without sin not because of her own independent merit, but because the salvation of Jesus on the cross manifested itself in her preemptively.

The traditional example. Most of us are walking along and fall into a pit. Jesus comes along and pulls us out. In Mary’s case, he ran out and stopped her from falling into the pit in the first place. In both cases, we were in need of God’s help. It was just manifested in different ways.

Josh


#3

Where is it that you learn this?


#4

There is nothing in Luke 1:47 to suggest in Mary’s use of the word “Savior” that she meant that God had saved her from her sins. In context, it seems she uses the word “Savior” to mean that God in His mercy had saved (or would soon save) her (and Israel), “the lowly” (v. 52) and “the hungry” (v. 53), from the oppression of “the proud” (v. 51), “the mighty” (v. 52), and “the rich” (v. 53).


#5

From the phrase “Kecharitomene” used in Luke. In Greek the word commonly translated “full of grace” (Kecharitomene) indicates that Mary was already filled with God’s saving grace. Hence, God saved her from falling into the pit of “Original Sin”. If Mary is always filled with Grace, she did not have “Original Sin”.

For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead came also through a human being. For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life, (1 Cor. 15: 21-22).

Notworthy


#6

(or would soon save) her
this is my question why soon save her if she was immaculate.


#7

What do you mean, “(or soon save her)”?

Notworthy


#8

I was quoting todd easton above, I fail to see once again why she needs a savior if she is sinless


#9

Why did she need a savior? She wasn’t born sinless on her own doing, now was she?

Jesus, her Savior, created her that way.

Notworthy


#10

any biblical basis for this?


#11

Yes, from post number 5 and from Sacred Tradition, which is VERY BIBLICAL.

There’s so much more, but those two come to mind the quickest.

Notworthy


#12

That scripture says nothing of the sort


#13

Ahhhhh, but Scripture and Sacred Tradition tell us all we need to know. Don’t rely on just one leg of a three-legged stool, my friend.

As I’ve discussed earlier, *Kecharitomene *tells us she is filled with Grace. Early Tradition as taught by so many of the Church Fathers tells us Mary was considered the Ark of the New Covenant. In the Old Testament you read how the Original Ark was made with the finest materials found on earth. It’s the same with the New Ark, Mary.

I’ll quote from Hippolytus, but I could send you countless other teachers that presented Mary in this way.

St. Hippolytus (c. 170-c. 236)

At that time, the Savior coming from the Virgin, the Ark, brought forth His own Body into the world from that Ark, which was gilded with pure gold within by the Word, and without by the Holy Ghost; so that the truth was shown forth, and the Ark was manifested…And the Savior came into the world bearing the incorruptible Ark, that is to say His own body” (S. Hippolytus, In Dan.vi., Patr. Gr., Tom. 10, p. 648) (Blessed Virgin, p. 77).

Notworthy


#14

If God can give the fruits of Christ’s death and ressurection to someone before that event actually happened, then couldn’t he have given grace to all of Israel (and avoid the difficult demands of the law that caused many to stumble) and indeed, to the entire world?


#15

I don’t know. Why don’t you ask Him?:smiley:

If you give a child everything he asks for, are you helping that child or hurting him?

Notworthy


#16

Luke 1:47 - Mary calls God her Savior. Some Protestants use this to denigrate Mary. Why? Of course God is Mary’s Savior! She was freed from original sin in the womb (unlike us who are freed from sin outside of the womb), but needed a Savior as much as the rest of humanity.

Compare to Rom. 9:11 - God distinguished between Jacob and Esau in the womb, before they sinned. Mary was also distinguished from the rest of humanity in the womb by being spared by God from original sin.


#17

Martin,

Is it inconceivable (OK, bad pun) for someone to be born without Original Sin? Wasn’t John the Baptist?

Notworthy


#18

[quote=myfavoritmartin]I fail to see once again why she needs a savior if she is sinless
[/quote]

Jesus saved her from the moment of her conception. She needed a savior in order to be conceived without original sin.


#19

If mary was born without sin what part of the following definition was she in danger of.
Savior: A person who rescues another from harm, danger, or loss.


#20

[quote=myfavoritmartin]If mary was born without sin what part of the following definition was she in danger of.
Savior: A person who rescues another from harm, danger, or loss.
[/quote]

It’s like the person who got up and said, 'Jesus saved me from a life of drugs; he saved me from a life of crime…because he saved me, before I could get into all that stuff. Jesus saved Mary before she could get into anything evil. She was conceived in the same state of grace that Adam & Eve were created in. The difference is that she said yes, rather than no.


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