Luke 1:6


#1

(Objection: The Bible says “None is righteous, no, not one: and no one does good, not even one.”)

1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

This verse is referring to Zechariah & Elizabeth as being righteous. The verse quoted as “None is righteous & no one does good,” is taken clearly out of context. This verse from Romans 3:10-12 is quoted from Psalms 14:1-4. In Psalm 14 the Psalmist is talking about two types of people, the wicked who eat up God’s people and then, in verse 5, the generation of the righteous. Also look at Lk 2:25, 5:32, 15:7, 23:50; Rom 5:19; Heb 10:37-38; Gen 6:9, 7:1, 38:26.


#2

[quote=E.E.N.S.](Objection: The Bible says “None is righteous, no, not one: and no one does good, not even one.”)

1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

This verse is referring to Zechariah & Elizabeth as being righteous. The verse quoted as “None is righteous & no one does good,” is taken clearly out of context. This verse from Romans 3:10-12 is quoted from Psalms 14:1-4. In Psalm 14 the Psalmist is talking about two types of people, the wicked who eat up God’s people and then, in verse 5, the generation of the righteous. Also look at Lk 2:25, 5:32, 15:7, 23:50; Rom 5:19; Heb 10:37-38; Gen 6:9, 7:1, 38:26.
[/quote]


#3

I guess this would be classified as a “dud thread” then huh? :wink:


#4

Hey good work.

Amen to all you say.

Another one liner I am sick to death f hearing is…

“your righteousness are as filthy rags before me !” or something like that.

It may be from Isaiah. I guess one could use the above refutations for it as well


#5

for completeness sake, I will include what I just found.

In 64:5 Isaiah wrote: “All our good deeds are like filthy rags.”

Lutherans use this to prove all our good deeds are sinful, for they
say we are totally corrupt. (Luther thought original justice, i.e.,
sanctifying grace, was a part of human nature. So the loss of it
would mean a total corruption of human nature: cf. his major work
The Bondage of the Will).

But they forget: 1) verse 6 says: “There is no one who calls upon
your name.” But many did. So, Semitic exaggeration. 2) Isa 40:2: “She
has received double for all her sins.” But that would be unjust–
more exaggeration. 3) Compare Is 13:9-10 on fall of Babylon, and
34:4 on Edom, and Ezek 32:7-8 on Egypt. - Same language as Mt. 24 on
sun darkened etc.


#6

Peace to you!

When God says that there is no one righteous, He doesn’t mean that there is no way to be righteous :slight_smile:

Simply, those who are called “righteous” in the Bible, are called so for their faith in God. Remember: we are saved by faith, and not by our filthy deeds.

THEOPHILUS†


#7

[quote=THEOPHILUS†] Remember: we are saved by faith, and not by our filthy deeds.
[/quote]

Also remember that we are not saved by faith alone, for faith with out works is dead. (cf. James 2:24)

We are saved by grace through faith working in love.

Amen.


#8

[quote=E.E.N.S.]Also remember that we are not saved by faith alone, for faith with out works is dead. (cf. James 2:24)

We are saved by grace through faith working in love.

Amen.
[/quote]

Right. We are saved by faith ITSELF working through love, not by faith + our filthy deeds. Read what Paul says in Romans 7 about faith + the deeds of your filthy old nature.

THEOPHILUS†


#9

[quote=THEOPHILUS†]Right. We are saved by faith ITSELF working through love, not by faith + our filthy deeds. Read what Paul says in Romans 7 about faith + the deeds of your filthy old nature.

THEOPHILUS†
[/quote]

In Romans Paul tells us that we will attain “eternal life by perseverence in good works” and that “God will repay each man according to his works.” (Rom 2:2-8)

We all know about James 2:16-24, but how about 2 Cor 11:15, “their end will correspond with their deeds.”

Or how about, “if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matt 19:16-17)


#10

[quote=E.E.N.S.]In Romans Paul tells us that we will attain “eternal life by perseverence in good works” and that “God will repay each man according to his works.” (Rom 2:2-8)

We all know about James 2:16-24, but how about 2 Cor 11:15, “their end will correspond with their deeds.”

Or how about, “if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matt 19:16-17)
[/quote]

All what you are quoting is from the Bible, so it’s totally right IN THE CONTEXT. I remind you that “a text without a context becomes a pretext for a prooftext” :slight_smile:

God will not judge you in private. All people and angels will be present. So He will not just say: “well, I know this man is good, because he believed in Christ”. Those people and angels cannot see your heart, as God does. Imagine you are in a court, and a judge says about a criminal that he’s innocent because HE KNOWS he’s innocent. What would be your reaction?

The fact is that a good tree always brings good fruits. So if someone is saved by genuine faith, that will result in good works, because God saved us to be free from sin, not to live in sin again. He saved us for good works.

We are saved so that we may do good works, not saved BY good works.

Yaqubos†


#11

[quote=THEOPHILUS†]Right. We are saved by faith ITSELF working through love, not by faith + our filthy deeds. Read what Paul says in Romans 7 about faith + the deeds of your filthy old nature.

THEOPHILUS†
[/quote]

Jesus time and agian points out that it is both (faith and deeds) and not just one or the other. It also seems that you have misunderstood Paul, since indeed good deeds is really faith working through love. Paul never taught sola fide in any way. What he taught is what Christ taught, and that is that our faith and our works should go in harmony, so that we might be a shining example of our faith in Christ.


#12

[quote=THEOPHILUS†]We are saved so that we may do good works, not saved BY good works.

Yaqubos†
[/quote]

The Bible itself will actually contradict you on this one. Quick, what would be God’s basis for our judgment?


#13

This has been gone over a million times. Let’s not hijack this thread and get it closed down. No, our works don’t save us, but they aren’t filthy either. Every good work of ours is a good work of Christ, and Christ’s works sure as heck aren’t filthy. We also have to remember that our works are necessary for salvation even if they themselves don’t save us. The concept of a true faith that always produces works versus a false faith that doesn’t is completely foreign to Scripture. When we’re talking about trees, we need to remember the most important words Jesus spoke about them:

“Every tree that doesn’t bring forth good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire”

He doesn’t say that every bad tree is thrown into the fire, or that every tree is spared. He doesn’t judge the trees based on their goodness or badness, He judges the trees based on the fruits they produce. This is just one of dozens of NT passages talking about judgement, with every single one referring to works or deeds and never to faith. We are saved by faith to be sure, in the sense that faith allows us to do good works by Christ working through us, and by these works will we be judged.

“though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.”

Remember, the Ephesians had great faith, such that St. Paul commends them for it, and yet he still warns them:

“For know and recognize this: no sexually immoral or impure or greedy person, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of the Messiah and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty arguments, for because of these things God’s wrath is coming on the disobedient.”

He speaks to people who he has just commended for being strong in faith about works. If these works were meaningless, he would not so strongly warn them.

In fact, this is the one passage that every Sola Fide person needs to read again and again. Paul writes directly to them when he says, “Let no one deceive you with empty arguments, for because of these things God’s wrath is coming on the disobedient.

Now let’s get on topic. Luke 1:6. Mary. Immaculate conception. Yay!


#14

[quote=Milliardo]Jesus time and agian points out that it is both (faith and deeds) and not just one or the other. It also seems that you have misunderstood Paul, since indeed good deeds is really faith working through love. Paul never taught sola fide in any way. What he taught is what Christ taught, and that is that our faith and our works should go in harmony, so that we might be a shining example of our faith in Christ.
[/quote]

Did I say anything else? :slight_smile: Of course, living faith must always have good works. How can you be a good tree and not have good fruits?

THEOPHILUS†


#15

[quote=THEOPHILUS†]Did I say anything else? :slight_smile: Of course, living faith must always have good works. How can you be a good tree and not have good fruits?

THEOPHILUS†
[/quote]

How do you prove one has faith? Their WORKS. Faith is not independent of works and neither is works independent of faith, but when both of them are added together, then and only then can you say you have “faith”. James discusses this clearly.

Mat 7:21

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


#16

[quote=Milliardo]The Bible itself will actually contradict you on this one. Quick, what would be God’s basis for our judgment?
[/quote]

QUICK: God’s basis for our judgment will be the fruits of our Salvation, just as your basis to judge any tree, whether it is a good tree or not, is its fruits :slight_smile:

As for you, you first need to be a good tree, i.e. to have Salvation. You can have that by repenting of your self-righteousness and your filthy nature and believing in Jesus Christ as your only Lord and Savior.

THEOPHILUS†


#17

[quote=THEOPHILUS†]QUICK: God’s basis for our judgment will be the fruits of our Salvation, just as your basis to judge any tree, whether it is a good tree or not, is its fruits :slight_smile:
[/quote]

What are those fruits then?


#18

[quote=Semper Fi]How do you prove one has faith? Their WORKS. Faith is not independent of works and neither is works independent of faith, but when both of them are added together, then and only then can you say you have “faith”. James discusses this clearly.

Mat 7:21
[/quote]

That’s totally right :slight_smile: You ask ME, not God, how I can prove one has faith. So people need to see your good works, so that they may know that you ARE saved. God doesn’t need to see your works to know if you are really believing in Christ with genuine faith. Before even He begins to give you the fruits of the Spirit, He justifies you for your faith.

So we agree that we can’t be saved by our filthy works of the flesh. We need to be saved and have the new nature that gives the fruits of the Spirit, not the fruits of the filthy old nature.

THEOPHILUS†


#19

[quote=THEOPHILUS†]God doesn’t need to see your works to know if you are really believing in Christ with genuine faith.
[/quote]

Why would God then judge us by what we did (works) if He does not need to see our works?


#20

[quote=Milliardo]What are those fruits then?
[/quote]

“the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control” ( Galatians 5:22-23 )

These are the fruits of THE SPIRIT, not of your filthy old nature. If you have that new nature, you have these fruits.

THEOPHILUS†


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