Lust for my girlfriend


#1

Hi everybody,

It's written in Matthew 5:28
"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

I accept all basis of our religion saying that pre-marital sex either masturbation or dependence on erotics or porn are not the things we should do. As one of the evidence this quote from Matthew is used.

So I faced a problem. I can't help looking at my girlfriend "to lust for her" because in order not to do that i would have to stop for example kissing with her at all. I bet it wouldn't be normal) Thus do i commit adultery with my girlfriend? (I not gonna marry her, at least in next some years) Is it sinful? And what should I do then?

Thanks!


#2

Intentionally lusting after her and your reaction from having a normal relationship are 2 different things. If you kiss her and masturbate about it later or intend for it to lead to something more, thats where the problem would come in, but kissing and all the natural emotions that come from it I would think are not sinful, afterall its something everyone does.


#3

[quote="R3VAN, post:2, topic:228578"]
afterall its something everyone does.

[/quote]

I disagree with you........http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon13.gif

We all should fully obey GOD commandments, and we all SHOULD remember this:

[size=2]1 Corinthians 6:9-10:
"You know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don't you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals,"

[/size]


#4

[quote="Sam_777, post:3, topic:228578"]
I disagree with you........http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon13.gif

We all should fully obey GOD commandments, and we all SHOULD remember this:

[size=2]1 Corinthians 6:9-10:[/size]
"You know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don't you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals,"

[/quote]

He did not mean that. He meant to say that, when, for example, you kiss your partner, and certain emotions rouse up, it's natural to feel such emotions during the action. The issue arises, however, when we give into the emotions and take things too far.

If you understood it like that, but you still deny such an argument, you would be walking the fine line of Gnosticism, which attempted to deny the good of the material world. If everything God created in this world is good, it would also be perfectly fine to have such feelings for your partner if you should be in moment of an act of love.


#5

[quote="Silvern, post:1, topic:228578"]
Hi everybody,

It's written in Matthew 5:28
"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

I accept all basis of our religion saying that pre-marital sex either masturbation or dependence on erotics or porn are not the things we should do. As one of the evidence this quote from Matthew is used.

So I faced a problem. I can't help looking at my girlfriend "to lust for her" because in order not to do that i would have to stop for example kissing with her at all. I bet it wouldn't be normal) Thus do i commit adultery with my girlfriend? (I not gonna marry her, at least in next some years) Is it sinful? And what should I do then?

Thanks!

[/quote]

Then stop kissing her.

Some generations back it was unthinkable to kiss someone whom you were not at least engaged to.
I have met people who didn't kiss each other at all before standing at the Alter in Church saying yes to each other for life.

Most men can not eg. french kiss without getting aroused, so their limit goes before the average woman who will not "loose her head" before being physically touched. This is normal, and its not something to play with.

If you get aroused by the kind of kissing you do, then give smaller kisses. Otherwise you put your own purity and the purity of your girl friend in danger.
And that danger is not hypothetical, I assure you that many of us here have, in the heat of ONE moment done things caused a heck of a havoc in our lives on many levels and that we can never undo.

So there is no other way to choose what's best for your girl friend and you than to stop kissing her in ways that arouse you. Any arousing activity belongs in foreplay leading to sexual union, and is intrinsically geared precisely at that end. You already know that. The question is if you are a strong enough man, strong in love and self-control, that you will choose the right path.

If you choose peace and beauty and goodness you make new rules and speak to your girl friend about new limits that respect you both better. If you do nothing and let things just happen then you will soon be trapped in situations you never imagined.
Its your call. And remember purity is a battle (most modern men are not accustomed to any kind of battle).. not something you have but something you fight to keep from the moment you experience mutual attraction.


#6

most modern men are not accustomed to any kind of battle

I find this line interesting. Which men are you talking to I wonder? In my experience, each day is not just a battle but a war, with many battles therein. Treaties are signed in your sleep. The only humans I have met in my life who does not live in constant war were corpses. Men and women, though our battles are different, are no greater or lesser than the other.

I will say that MissMarlene's proposal, besides being Puritanistic (hey, no offense, but it's true), would work, but it would work like an atomic bomb. I tried such - and my relationship nearly ended. Not because my girlfriend is immoral (gorsh no!) but because, even though she understood and accepted the reason why, she still was afraid I no longer loved her. For her, the kisses and hugs are something she never got as a child - it is comforting for her to have them finally received and to have them taken away reminds her of the lack of comfort she was given (still is given) by her parents.

What I am doing is saying - caution. Take caution in any advice dealing with relationships. You know you and your girlfriend better than anyone. Is it truly lust, or is it an admiration of her beauty and the emotions which attend her? It took a while to adjust for me to the difference, but there is a difference. Lust is, according to my priest-confessor, the desire to have sexual relations.

Have a good morning.


#7

[quote="Silvern, post:1, topic:228578"]
Hi everybody,

It's written in Matthew 5:28
"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

I accept all basis of our religion saying that pre-marital sex either masturbation or dependence on erotics or porn are not the things we should do. As one of the evidence this quote from Matthew is used.

So I faced a problem. I can't help looking at my girlfriend "to lust for her" because in order not to do that i would have to stop for example kissing with her at all. I bet it wouldn't be normal) Thus do i commit adultery with my girlfriend? (I not gonna marry her, at least in next some years) Is it sinful? And what should I do then?

Thanks!

[/quote]

Participate in the Sacraments sincerely and often. Establish a solid prayer life. You need these gifts to help combat potential sins of the flesh. It isn't easy and that's why Jesus established the Church to help us get by one day at a time. For example here are the promises of saying the Rosary -- the most powerful prayer after Mass. We need Grace to help us fight the good fight. God Bless you.

15 Promises For Saying The Rosary – From Our Blessed Mother

  1. Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive powerful graces.
  2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.
  3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies
  4. It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of people from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
  5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.
  6. Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of eternal life.
  7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
  8. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plentitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the Saints in Paradise.
  9. I shall deliver from purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.
  10. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.
  11. You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary.
  12. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.
  13. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death
  14. All who recite the Rosary are my children, and brothers and sisters of my only Son, Jesus Christ.
  15. Devotion of my Rosary is a great sign of predestination.

#8

[quote="ZDHayden, post:6, topic:228578"]
I find this line interesting. Which men are you talking to I wonder? In my experience, each day is not just a battle but a war, with many battles therein. Treaties are signed in your sleep. The only humans I have met in my life who does not live in constant war were corpses. Men and women, though our battles are different, are no greater or lesser than the other.

I will say that MissMarlene's proposal, besides being Puritanistic (hey, no offense, but it's true), would work, but it would work like an atomic bomb. I tried such - and my relationship nearly ended. Not because my girlfriend is immoral (gorsh no!) but because, even though she understood and accepted the reason why, she still was afraid I no longer loved her. For her, the kisses and hugs are something she never got as a child - it is comforting for her to have them finally received and to have them taken away reminds her of the lack of comfort she was given (still is given) by her parents.

What I am doing is saying - caution. Take caution in any advice dealing with relationships. You know you and your girlfriend better than anyone. Is it truly lust, or is it an admiration of her beauty and the emotions which attend her? It took a while to adjust for me to the difference, but there is a difference. Lust is, according to my priest-confessor, the desire to have sexual relations.

Have a good morning.

[/quote]

Long gazes into each other eyes, hand holding, hugs, small kisses on the forhead, cheeks and hands, and words of love and appreciation, comfort and acceptance. Plus both persons knowing that they mutually want to spend their life together and that they both wish to protect each other from harm... is that puritan?
Well, for me its the ideal.
This guy is saying that he lusts after his girlfriend when they kiss. So what, you think he should just kiss her more or continue.. is that your advice? Don't you know that the nature of lust is objectification? He didn't say that he desired to sleep with her, but that he lusts. There is a difference.
Don't you know that arousal leads most people to loosing their head and that the line between control and loss of control is very thin? Believe me, I have met guys that were all for chastity the one moment, and then when you share an intense kiss they start wanting to pull off your clothes. these men were not bad, by the way, They just didnt have the virtue of self-knowledge.

There are more love languages than one, my friend. If you think French kissing is necessary in order to show a woman that you truly love her, then I simply dont agree.

Now to your question. I don't know where you come from, but when I say that most men are not used to any kind of battle, I mean that most people in the Western world are weaker in their will than the average people just 50 years ago.. these were the words of an exorcist priest I know, by the way..
The Christians who eg. seriously fast or otherwise discipline their bodies are few, and most of us are not very good at saying no to ourselves when it comes to sacrificing pleasures, desires...
We are used to getting to eat and drink, warmth, doing hobbies etc when and how we want. We are not trained to deny ourselves.
I have talked to many Christians about this in my own country and they all agree with me that a culture of instant gratification where we have been spoiled does not train us well for self-denial.

Hope that makes my point a bit more clear.


#9

[quote="Silvern, post:1, topic:228578"]
Hi everybody,

It's written in Matthew 5:28
"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

I accept all basis of our religion saying that pre-marital sex either masturbation or dependence on erotics or porn are not the things we should do. As one of the evidence this quote from Matthew is used.

So I faced a problem. I can't help looking at my girlfriend "to lust for her" because in order not to do that i would have to stop for example kissing with her at all. I bet it wouldn't be normal) Thus do i commit adultery with my girlfriend? (I not gonna marry her, at least in next some years) Is it sinful? And what should I do then?

Thanks!

[/quote]

Make sure you have a good understanding of what the Church means by lust rather than what society means by lust. Society tends to chalk all sexual desire under the name of lust, but not all sexual desire is lustful. Its important to know the distinction if you are going to have a healthy and positive view of the sexuality God gave us.

When it comes to looking at your girlfriend, try to focus on her as an entire person. Lust tends to make us focus only on the sexual value. It distracts us from seeing the whole person. Pure sexual desire allows us to see the entire person while experiencing perhaps a sexual urge toward the person. As such, when we look at the person purely, we can love them more sincerely and recognize better what is appropriate behavior and what isn't.

That said, as we all struggle with lust to some degree, we do need to avoid occassions of sin and as such some people do decide to wait to kiss till they marry. Or they have limitations on kissing. It may even be a good idea not to date if marriage isn't something that could be around the corner in a reasonable amount of time due to your age. Dating can turn out to be just a temptation for us. However, that's not to say that its wrong as teens or something to go out on actual dates, like taking someone to a movie or to the State Fair. Unforunately, I think in more recent decades, people don't date in the older traditional sense. They become mutually exclusive right away and treat dating far too seriously - that is to say that people tend to "go steady" right away and at ages that it may not be wise to go steady during.

Looking at some of the others comments, I also wanted to add that confusing all sexual urges with lust can get you into trouble. Its good to recognize occassions of sin, but its also important to acknowledge that by becoming obsessed about never experiencing sexual arousal can in fact cause it to chase after you. You can find yourself becoming hypersensitive to even the brush of your fingers and eventually you get frustrated to the point where you start wondering if you need to keep a ten foot pole inbetween the two of you. A much better approach is to not make SUCH a big deal about the fact that you are a sexual creature. You simply have to say "Ok these feelings are there. Thank God I'm a sexual creature." and do something else. Don't freak out.

That said, I do think a good pointer is to strive to master chastity of the mind when you're alone. If you daydream about doing stuff with her when you're alone, its much harder to avoid it when you're together. But again, don't just be like "I won't think about it" because then you will obsessively think about it and frustrate yourself. When you want to think of her, focus on actual memories of of her, fun times you spent together in non-compromising situations. Focus on her smile or on a great conversation the two of you had. Again the key is to foster seeing her as a complete person rather than focusing totally in on her as a sexual good. Broaden your focus.


#10

[quote="Silvern, post:1, topic:228578"]
Hi everybody,

It's written in Matthew 5:28
"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

I accept all basis of our religion saying that pre-marital sex either masturbation or dependence on erotics or porn are not the things we should do. As one of the evidence this quote from Matthew is used.

So I faced a problem. I can't help looking at my girlfriend "to lust for her" because in order not to do that i would have to stop for example kissing with her at all. I bet it wouldn't be normal) Thus do i commit adultery with my girlfriend? (I not gonna marry her, at least in next some years) Is it sinful? And what should I do then?

Thanks!

[/quote]

I don't know what your age is, and that can matter. But changing the focus just a bit. I was intrigued by your statement "I'm not gonna marry her, at least in next some years". Maybe I'm backward (probably am) but I never, ever kept a girlfriend if I wasn't at least exploring the possibility of marriage to her. Otherwise, it's just self-indulgent. If it seemed fairly clear to me that I wasn't going to marry some girl I was going out with, I broke it off. I found out, fairly early on in dating, that the other person can easily develop expectations. So is it right for me to keep on dating some girl that I know I won't marry, or about whom I think "well, maybe someday or other; maybe not"? It just isn't fair to the girl to do that unless it's very clear to you that she's just going out with you to go out with somebody...anybody. And if that's the case, it's a mutual self-indulgence to be kissing other than perhaps fraternally, and it's hard for me to think of that as okay.

When one really is seriously even considering another person as a future spouse, I'm personally not too bothered with the idea of sexual attraction or even excitement. But at the point where one knows (being honest with oneself) one is not going in that direction, one needs to call it quits.

Sure, you find yourself without a girlfriend quite a lot if you treat dating as a serious enterprise aimed at marriage. But that's part of the "wife hunting" hazard. Nobody has a right to have a girlfriend. And frankly, I think having high expectations and a readiness to break it off teaches one to value the real thing when it comes along. Clears the mind.

I realize this was not what you asked the question for. But I do think you ought to think about it.


#11

[quote="twoangels, post:9, topic:228578"]
Make sure you have a good understanding of what the Church means by lust rather than what society means by lust. Society tends to chalk all sexual desire under the name of lust, but not all sexual desire is lustful. Its important to know the distinction if you are going to have a healthy and positive view of the sexuality God gave us.

When it comes to looking at your girlfriend, try to focus on her as an entire person. Lust tends to make us focus only on the sexual value. It distracts us from seeing the whole person. Pure sexual desire allows us to see the entire person while experiencing perhaps a sexual urge toward the person. As such, when we look at the person purely, we can love them more sincerely and recognize better what is appropriate behavior and what isn't.

That said, as we all struggle with lust to some degree, we do need to avoid occassions of sin and as such some people do decide to wait to kiss till they marry. Or they have limitations on kissing. It may even be a good idea not to date if marriage isn't something that could be around the corner in a reasonable amount of time due to your age. Dating can turn out to be just a temptation for us. However, that's not to say that its wrong as teens or something to go out on actual dates, like taking someone to a movie or to the State Fair. Unforunately, I think in more recent decades, people don't date in the older traditional sense. They become mutually exclusive right away and treat dating far too seriously - that is to say that people tend to "go steady" right away and at ages that it may not be wise to go steady during.

Looking at some of the others comments, I also wanted to add that confusing all sexual urges with lust can get you into trouble. Its good to recognize occassions of sin, but its also important to acknowledge that by becoming obsessed about never experiencing sexual arousal can in fact cause it to chase after you. You can find yourself becoming hypersensitive to even the brush of your fingers and eventually you get frustrated to the point where you start wondering if you need to keep a ten foot pole inbetween the two of you. A much better approach is to not make SUCH a big deal about the fact that you are a sexual creature. You simply have to say "Ok these feelings are there. Thank God I'm a sexual creature." and do something else. Don't freak out.

That said, I do think a good pointer is to strive to master chastity of the mind when you're alone. If you daydream about doing stuff with her when you're alone, its much harder to avoid it when you're together. But again, don't just be like "I won't think about it" because then you will obsessively think about it and frustrate yourself. When you want to think of her, focus on actual memories of of her, fun times you spent together in non-compromising situations. Focus on her smile or on a great conversation the two of you had. Again the key is to foster seeing her as a complete person rather than focusing totally in on her as a sexual good. Broaden your focus.

[/quote]

Catholic Answers needs a 'like' button :thumbsup:


#12

[quote="Silvern, post:1, topic:228578"]
Hi everybody,

It's written in Matthew 5:28
"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

I accept all basis of our religion saying that pre-marital sex either masturbation or dependence on erotics or porn are not the things we should do. As one of the evidence this quote from Matthew is used.

So I faced a problem. I can't help looking at my girlfriend "to lust for her" because in order not to do that i would have to stop for example kissing with her at all. I bet it wouldn't be normal) Thus do i commit adultery with my girlfriend? (I not gonna marry her, at least in next some years) Is it sinful? And what should I do then?

Thanks!

[/quote]

Relax, son, all you need is a good dose of Schadenfreude, so here it is: I lust after my WIVE's girlfriends and other men's wives and other men's wive's girlfriends, so you're not doing too badly!:D

On the other hand, the compound adultery did pretty much rid me of the porn problem, so the equation balances, after a fashion!

Ah, well, there's a good reason they don't let heathens like me write as Catholic apologists! Disregard everything previous as the rantings of a man at the end of his rope with organic chemistry!:thumbsup:


#13

I think that sometimes people focus too much on the idea of arousing one another as the litmus test for lust. I think this is dangerous to do. Lust is turning someone into an object for pleasure, whether physically, visually, or in the imagination. It is a sin because it devalues the human person - that person’s purpose and promise and belovedness by God - and turns him or her into a piece of meat. It is not a sin just because it has to do with sexy feelings.

We are Catholics, not Puritans. Our view of sexuality is fundamentally different from Puritanism. Catholics love sex; a husband and a wife having sex is an incredibly pure fulfillment of a love and sacrament. Puritanism views sex as a necessary evil, but ascribes no joy, no heavenly beauty to the act the way Catholicism does. These differences come out in attitudes and theological differences, and mixing them up is going to get us further from understanding.

I see men checking women out on the subway every day (and, I might add, vice versa). It is just too gross for words - eyes up and down, up and down. Sometimes they like what they see, sometimes they seem disinterested, but except for the odd few who get arrested every once in a while, nobody’s getting aroused. In fact, these people probably won’t remember the other people they’ve viewed unless they saw something really memorable. I would say that their banality is one of the worst forms of lust, though, even though there’s no dramatic, sinful arousal and hounding desire. They get on that train every morning expecting to be entertained by the parade of people they find attractive; they get on that train ready and willing to judge each morsel of flesh as it goes by as “good enough” for their pleasure-seeking-brain-centers or not. To the naked eye, it seems like “less of a big deal” than actually kissing, but I disagree. It is insidious, and to me it smacks more of the humiliation and usury of mankind, of Satan himself, than two people in love grappling with their feelings when they lock lips during a movie.

Erections, I might add, are not lust. (I am working on a masters paper dealing with child and adolescent spirituality - trust me, this subject is popular). They are normal and natural, and they happen even when a man doesn’t really fully intend for them to. In fact, if any of you remember pre-cana and have seen many threads on this site, a man has to know he’s capable of one or he can’t get married! How a man reacts is important to avoiding lustful acts, and arousal says “You’re in the danger zone!” but arousal *in of itself *is just the body working the way it should and needs to be separated from sin.

I think the crux of the question “Do I lust after my girlfriend” is to reframe it and ask what any man who asks this thinks of her - is she an object for his pleasure, whether sensual, sexual, or just as a buffer against loneliness, etc. - or is he working on a relationship where he’s truly attempting to discern whether they are suited for marriage?

(Just my thoughts! I think a lot about this because I get quite an eyeful of lust every day on the train. Sigh.)


#14

This thread is full of good posts.
I mean, the Catholic ones are good and noble.
The one written by a pagan shows very well how sad their world view is and how individualistic and selfish.
They make fun of the tragic things and even how they hurt others. I feel sorry for the
wives of pagan men and this guy shows quite well why Christian women should marry Christian men, because they are the only TRUE gentlemen left..


#15

ATTRACTION is not DESIRE is not AROUSAL is not LUST.

They might coexist but are not the same. In other words you might feel aroused yet not lust, so you are going to have to ponder this on a deeper level. The key question is “What is Lust?” Do some research and never quit learning.


#16

Lust for your girlfriend is something you will have to do for yourself.

I will not do it for you.

Keep in mind that sexual attraction is the root of romantic love, and romantic love is the foundation of lasting love.


#17

As a black man I can truly sympathize with your troubles. I feel that, as a black man, I am tested even more by God than many others because of the human anatomy he gave to me. I am faced with desire more than others.

Growing up, I lived in ghettos that were bordered by Jewish communities. This meant that I constantly faced the double-whammy of black booties and those beautiful JAPs (Jewish American Princesses). I found it difficult to control my lust just like you did, but as I grew older I changed.

At age 15, I had had enough. It was so difficult to control my lust, I thought I would sin even more than I had so far. There was only one logical thing I could do: avoid females at all costs. Sadly this meant spending all my time indoors and being home-schooled (no college, no job after highschool. I proudly live with my parents.). Sadly I haven't been outside except to go on the roof of my house to read and to go to Church (where I keep my head down).

But, I haven't sinned and I plan on enjoying my time in heaven! Good luck with your problem, fellow Catholic!


#18

Marry her. It is just that simple! God bless you!


#19

If I were you I would stop kissing her except for pecks on the cheek or lips every now and then. Sitting there "kissing" is just asking to become aroused, and/or to lust. It's hard, but worth it. You will torment yourself a lot less, and feel less guilty (rightfully so). Men arouse very easily, so you need to be mindful of that and set your limits appropriately. It doesn't matter what "everyone else does." Don't give the devil a foothold.


#20

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.