Luther-Bashing is Anti-Catholic


#1

Over the last 50 years, in fact, since Vatican 2, the Catholic Church has openly worked towards repairing the breach with the Lutheran branch of Christendom. Pope Francis recently visited Lund. The 500th anniversary of the Reformation was commemorated. Pope Benedict visited Wittenberg. Nice things have been said about Luther to Protestants. It is also true his excommunication has not been lifted.

Luther-bashing serves to widen and deepen the wounds in the body of Christ. It is clearly against the Catholic reassessment of Luther, church policy and church direction. But some Catholics just can’t seem to help themselves. They further division and scandal in the church by these actions, but you will see Luther-bashing repeatedly done, as if there is some moment in the Mass where you have a Two-Minute Hate or there is a private devotion of We Hate Martin Luther.

I wonder if Catholics who engage in this behavior are simply ignorant as to how out of line they are with the Church, or if they know it and are defiantly trashing Luther, knowing full well the Church disapproves.

Which is it? Ignorance or defiance? And why do so few Catholics correct the Luther bashers? To me it also smacks of scandal. I don’t think the intent of CAF was for it to be a refuge for those who reject Church teaching in favor of trashing Luther.


#2

Well, honestly, those people also hate the post Vat II church as well.
I don’t know anyone who ever speaks about Luther. It’s been a looooooooong time. But it’s been over 50 years since VAT II and people are still sobbing over what happened after it. Not DURING, mind you, they have not read the beautiful documents, but they are upset about church remodeling, no Latin, all kinds of stuff.
Change is hard fir lots of people, and dang near impossible for others to manage.


#3

I think you are exaggerating a bit on the Two-minute hate part. That being said I personally have no respect whatsoever for Martin Luther and I believe most of the pro-Luther talk is a misguided attempt to build bridges.


#4

If I had been with Martin Luther when he visited Rome for the first time. what he saw would’ve had me joining him in opposition.

Jim


#5

For the most part, I don’t think it’s either. I think that when someone has a chip on their shoulder they just can’t hide it. I would venture a guess that most of them on CAF have Protestant family members who they don’t get along with, and it causes them pain. Pain that manifests as anger.

And, I think that some younger people just don’t know any better.


#6

You actually took it one step further and made a post of this :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:


#7

Are you familiar with recent Catholic scholarship on this subject?

This ‘misguided directive’ has been the consistent Catholic approach as a direct result of Vatican 2. I don’t think that if you know what you are talking about that you should be talking like that.

I am also not sure why you have to point out your lack of respect for Martin Luther.


#8

A valid excommunication cannot be lifted posthumously.


#9

I hope you practice what you preach and teach your Reformed friends to respect Catholics and not call them idolaters


#10

There’s nothing wrong with pointing out when people do things wrong. Our Lord teaches us that it is our duty to do so. And there is not much more seriously wrong than causing half of Christendom to fall away from the faith.


#11

[quote=“SojournerOnEarth, post:1, topic:469608, full:true”] , but you will see Luther-bashing repeatedly done, as if there is some moment in the Mass where you have a Two-Minute Hate or there is a private devotion of We Hate Martin Luther.
[/quote]

To clarify, you have neither that moment nor that devotion. But people here seem to act as if you do.


#12

“Luther-bashing” is a very ambiguous term. Please provide some concrete examples of what you mean.


#13

It’s pretty much a given when people act like that, they aren’t doing their homework. It’s not much better than those who march in the street and then end up on youtube in an interview and can’t even explain why they are there in the first place.

See @pianistclare s first post.


#14

Indeed. It’s been my observation that many Luther-bashers are converts from Lutheranism who suffered some bad experience in the church and now feel some need to vindicate themselves in their conversion. We see this on our side of the Tiber, too, from former Roman Catholics. We have to teach them to temper their militant tendencies and learn to embrace Christ.


#15

I’m sorry, but I’m not sure what you mean by “Luther-Bashing.”

There are a number of truths surrounding Martin Luther that are strikes against him (from at least a Catholic point of view) and a number of things he got right (from a Catholic point of view). But starting a new Church was not (from a Catholic point of view) the right thing to do. Nor was what he did to the Sacraments, the Bible, theology, etc.

I highly recommend the following 2 audio talks on the subject:

God bless


#16

And Lutherans should do the same with Lutherans, and Anglicans with Anglicans, and Methodists with Methodists, etc


#17

Define Luther-bashing, and examples of that happening in your own experience. What qualifies as Luther bashing?


#18

The bashing of anyone is anti-Catholic, as we are called to love all. Bashing Luther? Wrong. Bashing those who bash Catholicism? Wrong? Bashing abortion advocates? Wrong. Bashing a politician? Wrong. Bashing those who bash others? Wrong. Bashing anyone? Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

So let’s not bash anyone. Let’s work on loving everyone. :slight_smile:

Note: I support the kind, efficacious, constructive correction of those who get it wrong. But that is in no way bashing.

God bless.


#19

Yes, and there’s a difference between stating facts and bashing someone. Truth is a friend of the true faith


#20

If you’ve put some time into studying the Reformation, Luther and the un-ending butterfly effects it’s had on we Catholics, our Protestant friends and the world in general it’s easy to see how one could develop a chip on their shoulder where Luther is concerned. We have to be objective and accurate regarding history, and sometimes that means highlighting unpleasant events (and in this case, there are unpleasant issues on both sides of the schism).

I think about Christ sitting at table with all the sinners of His time and I have to wonder who might occupy that table today. And I think that’s what the Church is trying to do (and we can debate about the correctness of the approach). The Church is trying to do what Christ did when He got right in with the exact sort of people the powers that be thought were lost causes or unworthy.

It’s a difficult line to walk, being charitable while defending the Truth our Church guards.


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