Luther-Bashing is Anti-Catholic


#72

Though the man is certainly worth praying for (which he did not believe in!), his error was rightly condemned and officially opposed at Trent. Truth matters, and souls that were lead astray matter.

We live in an age of pervasive, corrosive and tyrannical relativism. The fact that modern Lutherans do not follow their forefather’s teachings reflects better on them and worse on him.

Look, the man was deeply, profoundly disturbed psychologically. Even those who fawned over him, such as Philipp Melanchthon, made mention of this within their praise of the man.

The fact that ‘saving faith’ is defined as faith which one believes will save them is utterly radical, not supported by scripture, and makes a mockery of the Lord’s constant call to repentance.

Despite the goodness of modern Lutherans, the dangerous errors of you-know-who must be pointed out since, last I heard, truth still exists and still matters.


#73

The Church should work towards reconciliation. The thing is, it has shown how it wants it done, and this is not that way.


#74

Joe1… Well said and thank you. All souls are worthy to be forgiven and be granted mercy. But, the process must be based on truth, sincerity and honesty. Things do get worse if we ignore them.


#75

[quote=“po18guy, post:72, topic:469608, full:true”] The fact that modern Lutherans do not follow their forefather’s teachings reflects better on them and worse on him.
[/quote]

So why attack him, if they are not following him?


#76

are you referring to what the Church is doing for reconciliation or what i suggested?


#77

We aren’t attacking the person of Martin Luther. We are merely exposing his works for what they are. Wouldn’t you want to know if your denominational founder’s works were vile and lewd? Or, would you want to remain in the naive comfort of not knowing?


#78

I am referring to the fact there is a dissonance between the methods of ecumenism that the Church requires its members to follow, and is following, and the sordid methodology being followed here, which has never worked and is in opposition to the Church. It is amazing to me that Catholics who are posting here, theoretically engaging in ecumenism, have no idea as to how to go about it. They wind up wounding the Body of Christ further with their antics.


#79

i see. thanks for clarifying


#80

Bulllfrogs. You most certainly are. Just take a look at this thread and see the things that have been said about him that are personal, such as his psychological condition…

[quote=“AugustTherese, post:77, topic:469608, full:true”]

“Look, the man was deeply, profoundly disturbed psychologically. Even those who fawned over him, such as Philipp Melanchthon, made mention of this within their praise of the man.”

Did you read that? Is that "not attacking the person of Martin Luther’s [sic]?


#81

Wow! I advise no one else to acknowledge this poster.


#82

Nice quick edit. We will know by their works.


#83

I disagree with your thought process. Was trying Ted Bundy for murder “bashing” him? Must we slavishly praise the dead? Pol Pot? Joseph Stalin? Idi Amin?

They achieved sanctity by simply dropping dead?

Was the Church wrong to condemn YKW for heresy?

Truth matters, that’s why.

READ the man’s writings for goodness’ sake!


#84

Nobody said anything about “slavishly praising the dead”.

You give me every impression that you are in open, willful rebellion against the Church.


#85

510143


#86

I would only judge Luther by his works and actions. To point out the error of one mans works is not to bash him, it is to correct him. Even after his death, some people would say things about him that are false, which would force us to say the truth of what he believed in and did.

What he believed in and how he put in his writings, shows a vehement hatred towards the Catholic Church and the Papacy. None of this can be argued as false. Also, his heresy, which he didn’t renounce before his excommunication (i do not know if he ever renounced it after) shows that he was not friend to the Church and would not listen. Because of this people have a sour opinion about Luther due to what he did.

What can we say then? A man can be forgiven of his transgressions by God through his Church. Repentance of sins is important in this. For if a man would not repent what happens?

The final judge is God alone. Wherever he is, heaven or hell, that is God’s decision. We cannot judge where he is, nor can we treat him cruelly based on appearance. We can only judge based on his works, and what he has said in his writings, and hope God has mercy on his soul.


#87

Most of my responses are backed up by Church links, NOT my opinions but Church links. NONE of them are squishy on the subject matter.


#88

Things are not always what they seem, but sometimes are.

Why do you seem willing to ignore a definitive, ‘from the Chair of Peter’ ruling on the man’s obstinate refusal to repent of heresy? Consider the continuing practice of doctrines which place millions of souls at risk.

Should the Church revise the documents of the Council of Trent to read "Now that he’s dead, we must not mention him or speak ill of his teachings?

Nonsense, I say.

Consider turning your accusation around.

This is no time to submit to the dictatorship of relativism, or to a false ecumenism which accepts dangerous doctrines as just another option for believers.

The entire point of ecumenism is to lead others to the truth.

Anyway, you will not be persuaded, so I’m out.


#89

While I’m not sure I totally agree with you on #1, #2 tells me that you’re the sort of Roman Catholic we Lutherans can tolerate in discussions. :slight_smile:


#90

Oh, buddy. Might I suggest you never read what Luther’s Roman Catholic contemporaries like Eck, Cochleus and others had to say about Jews. Better to keep your innocence.


#91

We do. We’ve been doing it for 500 years. The Reformed tried to hijack Luther for their own purposes. In response, we wrote most of our Confessions in response to them, not Rome. It’s fascinating reading for anyone who cares to actually learn. Keep count of how many times the Lutheran Confessors write against the “Zwinglians,” “Anabaptists,” “Enthusiasts” and the like. Roman Catholics will be surprised to see more disagreement with Evangelicals than Rome.


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