Luther conversations with the Devil

Hello, does anybody have Luthers book “De missa privata et unctione sacerdotum” (1521) in english?

I read here and in another source (a book about Holy Mass written by a Bishop in 1899) that Luther wrote about how he was counseled by a Devil to stop celebrating Holy Mass.

I want to use this argument in a conversation with a protestant, however I don’t want to use argument which might be fake. Therefore I would be really glad if someone could look it up. If it was there then I would love to have a photo of that page.

Thanks a lot!

Do you mean that it’s reported Luther stopped celebrating Mass because a devil advised him to?
If not then please, explain?

That’s what those sources claim. I just can’t find the book in english to either confirm or disprove.

You are not going to win over the heart of any person by telling them someone they admire was inspired by the devil. If what you want is not conversion but debate points you had better have the book in the original language and a translation they will accept.

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I found it in latin however that’s useless since neither I (unfortunatelly) nor he speak Latin. I have a lot of arguments, proofs, church father quotations etc. I just wanted this as a finishing touch.

Either way It is not important if it will win his heart or not. I just want to know whether it’s true or not - for me.

In my opinion, it sounds more like a polemical than a genuine criticism of Luther. From what I know about Luther, I would expect either he never wrote it or it is quoted out of context (like his supposed “Sin boldly”).

All references I could find were from Catholic websites trying to say Luther was a servant of devil and that there is a connection between Lutheranism and Islam. The bias aimed against the person is clear, I would not consider this to be an objective source.

I would say if you don’t know the context and true meaning of the quote, don’t use it. It would be uncharitable to both Luther and the person you’re arguing with.

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That’s why I need the page of the book to make sure it’s true.

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Not just a page. I think you would need an entire original book authenticated beyond doubt by a reliable neutral party to prove something like that.

The difference is this is supposedly written by him.

Not really. It needs to be translated by his followers or those who are not against him. At least that’s enough for me.

Even the ehmmmm … human waste … talks he had are confirmed by Lutherans which try to play it down, that it was a normal thing to talk like this back then. So I would not be shocked that he said the the thin g I am trying to confirm, however I want to be sure.

So please either provide the proofs for the claim or against the claim. Any other talk is useless unless we have the book.

That is exactly my point. Given the history of spurious texts being used against religious groups or persons, the original book itself must be fully authenticated if it is to be used to prove something so significant.

Well, perhaps if you are writing a Doctoral dissertation. For my purpose it would be overkill. I would be happy with seeing the photo of the cover and the page.

Which one? The “…finishing touch” or “…just want to know whether it’s true…”. Either way, and not knowing the specific situation, I personally would estimate the odds of it being true as minuscule at best. If it were true and provable it would have been disseminated far and wide and be easily findable. After all, it is not hard to find copies of even books that have been proven to be forgeries and are still used against religions; how much easier would authentic ones be to find?

For the purpose of private conversation and not public academic paper.

It is not problem to find the book, but to find it in english.

However wrong Luther was in reality, there will be lots of false allegations against him including actual statements taken out of context. OP is right to be careful and to insist on a provable source.

No, people naturally resist any evidence they are given, that challenges their assumptions about anything. Where veneration of a personage is involved, this is especially true.

A very good book on Luther, that I read in college, is Young Man Luther by psychologist Erik Erikson. In a nutshell, Erikson brings out that Luther was a scrupulous young man who had certain issues with sexual continence, and that it ran him crazy, until he brought himself to believe that salvation is a free gift from God, attainable by faith alone.

I have had individual Lutherans in my life whom I liked very much, but this is no way to start a religion. Luther had more issues than Sports Illustrated.

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Luther celebrated the mass throughout his life.
When do they claim he stopped?

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Might even have been approaching National Geographic levels…

If there were any truth to it…it would’ve been big news. Like, really big news. LIke, the biggest news to hit since the Reformation.

Have you read the essay? In this essay Luther was not counseled by the devil to stop celebrating mass. The devil was attempting to use Luther’s celebration of the mass as a redemptive work when he was a Roman Catholic priest, as well as other past sin, as cause to condemn him, whereupon Luther relied upon the promise of his being baptized in Christ and forgiven of past sin to prevent him from despairing over his sin and to confound the devil. Seems to me a poor polemical argument against a Protestant, particularly if you haven’t read it.

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why don’t you ask here maybe he/she has an answers.

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