man died...and returned..Heaven and Hell


#1

Moderator Note: Link to a movie clip of an unapproved private revelation removed.


#2

These experiences always fascinate me… nothing he said really contradicted anything I would believe Heaven to be like as a Catholic… in fact, it reinforced much of what I believed. But still, I’m always a little skeptical, too… I don’t want to believe everything because there might be a chance it was some chemical reaction going on in his body as it approached death… a hallucination or something…? I don’t know. I am interested in hearing other’s take on this, esp. from a Catholic perspective… Judie


#3

Well, from a Catholic persective, if the man really met God, he would have returned to consciousness as a Catholic!

I am very skeptical of these “near death” experiences. Like the above poster said, one has to wonder if it was drugs or shock or any number of things. I’ve had dreams while being administered phenabarbytol in the hospital that were as convincing as what he described. The interviewer seemed to unthinkingly validate his every assertion and it made me think about how the Church approaches these types of experiences. The careful, deliberate and rigorous process involved in discerning when folks are having true revelatory experiences is much more trustworthy than what was revealed in this video.


#4

Unapproved private revelations are not really an apologetic discussion topic guys. This is more spirituality…


#5

I would really like to know what this process of discernment is! I have talked with many Priest about this same thing, minus being in the presence of God, but including a cry out with a merciful and loving response after a hellish blackness. Could you please direct me to the human expert in this. I haven’t found them in four years. Tim


#6

I’ll answer my own question. It’s trial and error and the stakes are high. Forget the past, cling to the Lord, stay in grace. Thats tough enough. If the devil reminds you of what could await, you’ll despair yourself right into his hands. Tim


#7

Well- I thought of that, too… but didn’t want to sound too arrogant- like “this couldn’t be true because the guy isn’t Catholic now!” It did give me pause… when you meet Jesus, will you instantly become Catholic? I’m sure other Christians are rolling their eyes right now! I’m sorry… not trying to offend… I personally believe in the fullness of Catholic truth… if I didn’t, I wouldn’t be Catholic!:thumbsup:


#8

The Lord always leaves room for faith. After my experience, I almost became a JW. But in obedience, I remembered my vows to God in confirmation and would not go against that. They showed up like vultures for the carion. To look back it is scary how the devil tries to get you back. Tim


#9

The problem inherent in any communication by the divine is that it must be mediated through our imperfect humanity, which is submerged in our own particular culture and time. God never reveals lies to us-- but those to whom revelation is given often can, and do, misinterpret the message that God has given to them. It is possible that he both had a genuine revelation from God, and also misinterpreted it’s significance as regards the Catholic faith.

That being said, I don’t give automatic credence to what this man says. Granted, the fruit of this alleged revelation must be good if he has converted from a life of the world, to a Christian life.

-Rob


#10

Those in the faith know there is a heaven and a hell. No need to have witness like this when Jesus Himself spoke of such things. This can be a very private matter and should be unless there is an attached message for humanity reconized by the Church. The rest is a trap and snare. I’m sorry for even watching this film. Tim


#11

I am rather bummed out – my sound stopped working, so I wasn’t able to hear the program, only watch.

My general understanding of near-death (involving what is called a clinical death situation) is that they are quite possible. The Gospel examples of Jesus raising Lazareth and the girl and the widow’s son have similarities.

These experiences occure to practicaly all cultures and religions, so I woud rather doubt a person would return after a few minuets with a totaly infused knowledge of the Catholic faith. Jesus, himeself was obedient to his parents and grew in knowledge and wisdom. He was found asking questions in the temple as a boy – not found instructing the elders.

This leads me to think, how wonderful if the experience is real (or even magnificently imagined because of neurological science) if the person returned to this life requesting a Preist and Catholic instructions – but at the same time, I would find that highly unlikley with respcet to the natural order of God’s creation.

Becasue I did not hear the viedo link – I can’t comment specifically to that case – only to a generalization of near-death experiences.


#12

It was my gut response! After all, if the guy did meet God, wouldn’t He have sent the man back with the fullness of the truth?


#13

A common factor I am aware of, (meaning there is much I am not aware of), concerning Life after Life - Near Death experiences is that those with the most possitive experience are very driven persons afterwards. They are ussually driven to first of all be persons of peace, of good will. Then, we might see that they are gifted with certain mannerisms to encourage others to do good.

That is quite the over generalization on my part. These rather brief experiences (ussualy brief time periods) shows that the person comes back in much the same faith as when they left. Converting from one faith to another has happened in some cases – but this happens over a period of time and discernment.

Instantly inffussed knowledge is not something I think the church has given much creedance to. I’ve read of infussed knowledge in the Koran. There the new born Christ Child speaks with a wisdom surpassing any grown adult.

Even one coming back from the grave would not change us.

It would be a point of comfort for me, in the short term, to think a post-Christian prophet would be sent back to us from the grave. But, in the long term – I see this could not be. In fact, I would consider such a claim by a person to be highly suspect.

There are Catholics who have been brought back (or at least this is the claim). They become more driven Catholics for sure, becasue of their experiences. More than likely, they keep the actual experience to themselves, or perhaps to a trusted partner.

The experiences have been so well recorded and documented through the ages and especialy in modern times – that I also hold out that any person with a bit of creativity can manufacture such a tale. I have done similar in my fictional writings – but then, again - I have declared my accountings as fiction - no intention to decieve.


#14

While skeptical of these experiences… I also think they are possible and I would LIKE to believe they are true. I even read “Embraced by the Light” and a few other famous accounts. I am not sure God would just give someone the “fullness” of the truth… (I suppose great saints have received something like that)- perhaps He just gives a glimpse to set a human back on the right path in their continuing journey towards Him. In a theology class that I took at the local seminary, my prof. said that the “fullness of truth” can not possibly be known this side of heaven, because our limited human brains could not contain the infinite knowledge, love, ect. that is God. We are only capable of handling a small foretaste. As Catholics, we like to say that we have “the fullness of truth,” but it may be more correct to say that we have the best manifestation of God’s limitless truth that is possible here on earth. So perhaps this man did have an experience of God’s love and hell’s horror, but was left to figure out what it all means by God, who wants us to come to Him voluntarily. :shrug: Who can actually know these things, anyway? It’s all conjecture.


#15

These rather brief experiences (ussualy brief time periods) shows that the person comes back in much the same faith as when they left. Converting from one faith to another has happened in some cases – but this happens over a period of time and discernment.

This guy claims he had no faith at all before this happened. It seems to me that if he truly was standing before God, as he claims, then the Lord would have set him on the “right” path of faith upon his return. Why give the guy directions to heaven if the directions take him the long route or down the back roads?:confused:


#16

Thats a good question. Tim


#17

Years ago, Mother Angelica had a Catholic priest on the program(wish I remembered his name) who was in an auto accident, and had a death experience. According to him, he was heading for eternal damnation, but he heard the Blessed Mother asking her son to give him another chance, which he was given and he returned to life.
The priest told how before this experience, he was very lose on doctrine. He lived the good life in fact, the car he was driving was an expensive sports car. He often preached against the teachings of the Church on abortion and gay rights.

However, after the accident and death experience, he came back a transformed priest and at the time, was on a mission, speaking to other priest around the US and Canada.

His story was very convincing.

Jim


#18

Yes, I saw that too. The Lord said to the priest" you know where you must go" and he replied yes. That is when the Blessed Mother intervened. Hopeful story and one of the reasons I have a devotion to Mary. Tim


#19

What a great and inspiring story! Did not see it, but I believe that even the Doctors of the Church don’t really know the WHOLE story. None of us do, I don’t believe in this life. That is NOT to say however, that we are to ignore the teachings of The Church, or pick and choose what we like and don’t like. But, how can any of us really know the ALL when NONE of us are there yet?
Interesting subject.


#20

I found Fr Steven Scheier’s story with Mother Angelica. Scroll down to the bottom of the web page and you can view the entire show. It was extremely compelling! I think I need to go read the 10 commandments again.

frtommylane.com/homilies/year_c/lent3.htm


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