Man Made or Holy

My Mormon father continues to believe that the Catholic Faith is a man made institution, I can’t count how many times I have had to defend the faith I now believe in as the only church that Christ founded, I wish my father could understand, my point in posting this, is to point out that the Holy Mother Church is the only Church that I can trust. :signofcross:

Have any friends of yours had similar thoughts about the Man Made or Holy factor?

If one says the Church is Holy, that is a good thing.

Otherwise, a sort of claim that it is “Man Made” I believe is a common one that any number of apologetic sources should cover.

Ask your father a couple of thoings:

  1. How did Joseph Smith test the spirit which spoke to him to be sure it was from God (1 John 4:1-4)?

  2. What does your father think about the Eastern Orthodox Church, which is also 2,000 years old?

Yeah, and I also some family members have similar views.

Generally, it doesn’t do much good in these cases to hash and rehash it. He knows what you believe, and you know what he believes. Why not agree that you disagree, and talk about other topics? I doubt he’ll convert you or vice versa.

In my family, we’ve had times where we’ve found it necessary to call a “truce” and make it an off-limits topic. When someone raises it, despite it being off limits, you gently remind the person, “Remember, we agreed we wouldn’t talk about religion”.

My brother says he prefers not to talk about certain topics, because he wants to have a good time.

We’ve had rifts in my family due to religion, which have sometimes lasted years.

We have arguments on our Church, where if came from and how, but I doubt he’s really open to listening. Why not talk about anything else, instead of doing this more countless times?

Enjoy your time together. Life’s too short to seek out conflict. Find something you have in common, or neutral, and why not talk about that.

If he says, “The Catholic Church is man made”, since you’ve given all your arguments already, you can say, “Nice day, today, isn’t it?”


Its hard to convince others to go away from what they believe is truth. Sometimes it seems near impossible, but you can pray for your dad that he comes to know the truth of the Catholic Church. You might want to tell him that there was no break in the Church for 2,000 years because God is forever faithful to the Church. Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.


Why do native Americans not have DNA links to Hebrew people?

Why are there no archeological supports for the vast civilizations in the Book of Mormon?

How did the books of the Bible get compiled and why does the LDS church give them authority ?

He believes that the “rock” that our Lord states just means revelation, I find that hard to believe, to me it strongly has to mean Peter and him only.

You are revelation and upon this revelation I will build my church.

Nah. Doesn’t work!

Your name is now Rock and upon this rock I will build my church. (But I really meant upon this revelation…but I named you Rock just for fun)

Nah. Doesn’t work!

Actually, they do. All life on earth originated from a single-celled organism called the Last Universal Common Ancestor (LUCA). All members of a species share a common male/female ancestor called the Last Common Ancestor (LCA) for that species. Scientists have named our LCAs Mitochondrial Eve and Y-Chromosome Adam. If you go back far enough, all species are genetically related.

However, it is absolutely true that there was no common ancestor for Native Americans and Hebrews since the Christian Era. You gotta go back MANY thousands of years to find a common ancestor of Native Americans and Hebrews (maybe all the way back to the LCAs, which was hundreds of thousands of years ago).

Yes of course, Mormonism teaches that some of the Hebrew people came to the new world and became native Americans within the last 5000 yrs. which would require a direct link that is absent.

Christianity is supported by a cloud of witnesses. The LDS is directly supported only by the claims of a single man who was shot and killed in a jail break.

Ask your father to consider the following:

Is Jesus our king? Did He re-establish the office of the Royal Steward?

In ancient times, a king might choose a second in command (known as the royal steward or prime minister) who literally wore a large key as a symbol of his office and who spoke with the authority of the king. The prophet Isaiah confirms this:

Isaiah 22:20-22
"In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah. I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.”

In the passage above, God is speaking, and He confirms the existence of the office, the key, and the continuation of the office despite the change of office holder. In other words, the office of the royal steward continued even when the man who held the office died or was replaced by someone else. God Himself passes the key from one steward to the next.

In the New Testament, we learn that Jesus inherits the throne of his father, David.

Luke 1:31–33
And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there will be no end.

We also read the following:

Matthew 16:13-19
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

The passage quoted above from Matthew tells us that Jesus named Peter as His royal steward and gave him the “keys to the kingdom of heaven" as the symbol of his authority to speak in His name. Since Jesus is an eternal king, the office of royal steward in His kingdom will never end. Peter died as a martyr as Jesus foretold, but the successors of Peter have taken his place in the perpetual office that Jesus established in His royal court.

In addition to the reference to a key or keys, note the following parallels:

"What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.” (Is. 22:22)
"Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” (Mt. 16:19)

Jesus specifically referenced the passage from Isaiah when He appointed Peter, and Peter received authority from Jesus to speak universally in His name. To do so faithfully, Peter must not teach error; therefore, Peter (and his successors who hold the office of the Royal Steward - also known as the Bishop of Rome) are protected by God through the charism of infallibility.

How did every other prophet of God die?

How did Joseph Smith die?

Wasn’t he in the act of escaping from the jail in Naboo (sp?) Illinois?

The profitability of these questions is going right over my head – especially since Jesus Himself was executed. :confused:
Could you explain?

Smith was killed by a mob of men while he was firing his own pistol and leaping out of a window to escape. He was in jail to face charges stemming from his raising of a militia in a long-standing argument over his attempts to marry other mens’ wives and over control of the town. That’s not the actions of a prophet of God. Look to the history of prophets in the Bible and how they died. Not even in the same realm.

Thanks for explaining.

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