Marian apparitions in Egypt


#1

I have been looking for quite some time for information on the Marian apparitions in Egypt. Mildly famous is Zeitun. When I first saw that, I thought to myself “How could this not be world shattering news? How could this not be on t.v. every night?” I attributed it to the less connected more insulated world of the 60’s. Then, sometime later, I heard that from 2000 to 2003, apparitions appear at Assiut. Again, I never heard a peep about this. I have seen some video, and it is quite intriguiging.

In any event, these incidents have had me wondering for a long time:

a) Why wasn’t this world-shattering news? I mean the ghostly image of a religious figure standing outdoors, for several years?

b) More importantly, why were the apparitions on top of Coptic churches both times? If I’m a Coptic, I’m thinking “Ok, don’t you think this pretty much settles the question of who’s right?”

I tried to argue in favor of Catholicism based on its virtual monopoly of scientifically verified miracles. But the ultimate miracle of our modern times is not even Catholic.

Anyone have any opinions?


#2

Recently, there have been numerous news stories regarding the statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary that is bleeding. This makes news but not an apparition seen by hundreds??

I don’t get it either.

Micki


#3

It was my understanding that that particular Coptic church is in union with Rome.

Anyone else???


#4

Oh, maybe it isn’t in union with Rome. Some Egyptian Coptics are in Union with Rome, but this particular church doesn’t appear to be.

In other words, don’t trust my word.


#5

There are a few Marian apparitions in Egypt. All that I know of have occurred at Coptic Orthodox Churches—not in communion with Rome.

The most famous one of course is that in Zeitoun, Egypt. At the time it occured it was discussed all over the world. There pictures and newspaper articles everywhere:

In addition to the apparition in Zeitoun, there are stories of apparitions in

August 1982 Edfu, Egypt
August/September 2000 in Assuit, Egypt
August/September 1987Menufiya, Egypt

All the pictures, and info I’ve stated above are from this site:
zeitun-eg.org/stmaridx.htm

There is sooo much information on there I would encourage you to check it out.

More importantly, why were the apparitions on top of Coptic churches both times? If I’m a Coptic, I’m thinking “Ok, don’t you think this pretty much settles the question of who’s right?”

As a Copt, reading about all of these miracles definately does help confirm my belief that I am part of the correct faith. And not just these apparitions, but story after story of the other miracles occuring in our churches and by our Popes. But on the other hand, you can’t base your whole faith on the number/quality of miracles that have occured in it. I have no doubt in my mind that there are other miracles in all sorts of Christian faiths and denominations.

Think of all the miracles Jesus performed. I went to a Bible study at my church where the priest, was discussing some passages and was asking us why did Jesus perform miracles? Was it to convince/convert everyone to Christianity through his miracles? The priest’s answer to that was “no”. His miracles were not what everyone should base there faith upon Christ, but more of a sign pointing you in the right direction and leading you.

I know I definately didn’t explain it as well as Abouna Angelos did, but do you understand what I’m trying to say?

God Bless,
Elizabeth


#6

[quote=CSN]I have been looking for quite some time for information on the Marian apparitions in Egypt. Mildly famous is Zeitun. When I first saw that, I thought to myself “How could this not be world shattering news? How could this not be on t.v. every night?” I attributed it to the less connected more insulated world of the 60’s. Then, sometime later, I heard that from 2000 to 2003, apparitions appear at Assiut. Again, I never heard a peep about this. I have seen some video, and it is quite intriguiging.

In any event, these incidents have had me wondering for a long time:

a) Why wasn’t this world-shattering news? I mean the ghostly image of a religious figure standing outdoors, for several years?
[/quote]

I’ve seen the photos in a booklet on the Zeitoun apparitions - they are terribly indistinct: at most, a white something-or-other, usually very high up. They could be anything

That’s probably they have attracted comparatively little attention. ##

b) More importantly, why were the apparitions on top of Coptic churches both times? If I’m a Coptic, I’m thinking “Ok, don’t you think this pretty much settles the question of who’s right?”

No :slight_smile:

I tried to argue in favor of Catholicism based on its virtual monopoly of scientifically verified miracles. But the ultimate miracle of our modern times is not even Catholic.

Anyone have any opinions?

Definitely :slight_smile: - I would run a thousand miles from a religion which tried to recommend itself by claiming an exclusive copyright on the acts of God.

God is not a little God Who has to be given leave by His Church to show up when & as His Church deems fit - He is a great God, a glorious God a Sovereign God, ever-faithful and supremely free, Who acts and speaks:
[list]
*]as
*]when
*]where
*]to whom
*]in the measure
*]for the purpose
*]by the means
*]as often
[/list]that He Wills. The CC receives good things for one reason only - that she may share them. Not to show them off as though she had some entitlement to them. She hasn’t . All we have, is for sharing - that goes with being a Church: the leg does not monopolise the blood in it - it shares it with the rest of the body.

IMO, the conversion of a single human being is worth all the apparitions and visions & so on in creation. ##


#7

[quote=Micki]Recently, there have been numerous news stories regarding the statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary that is bleeding. This makes news but not an apparition seen by hundreds??

I don’t get it either.

Micki
[/quote]

Exactly! That grilled cheese sandwich on e-Bay got tons of press, remember that one with Jesus or Mary on it?


#8

[quote=Gottle of Geer]## I’ve seen the photos in a booklet on the Zeitoun apparitions - they are terribly indistinct: at most, a white something-or-other, usually very high up. They could be anything

That’s probably they have attracted comparatively little attention. ##
[/quote]

With respect, I can’t agree that they are terribly indistinct. In fact, that’s to be expected, given the description of “brilliant white lights”, etc. I saw footage of the doves hovering in formation, and I also saw some kind of entity (granted, it looked more like a shrimp than a person), appearing out of nothingness and then hovering in the air.

[quote=Gottle of Geer]## Definitely :slight_smile: - I would run a thousand miles from a religion which tried to recommend itself by claiming an exclusive copyright on the acts of God.

God is not a little God Who has to be given leave by His Church to show up when & as His Church deems fit - He is a great God, a glorious God a Sovereign God, ever-faithful and supremely free, Who acts and speaks:
[list]
*]as
*]when
*]where
*]to whom
*]in the measure
*]for the purpose
*]by the means
*]as often
[/list]that He Wills. The CC receives good things for one reason only - that she may share them. Not to show them off as though she had some entitlement to them. She hasn’t . All we have, is for sharing - that goes with being a Church: the leg does not monopolise the blood in it - it shares it with the rest of the body.

IMO, the conversion of a single human being is worth all the apparitions and visions & so on in creation. ##
[/quote]

I agree, one doesn’t make God jump through hoops, but my base argument against my atheist friends, as an appeal to their logic, used to be the overwhelming, near monopoly of scientifically tested and inexplicable miracles relating to the Catholic faith alone – the Incorruptibles, the Eucharistic Miracles, Fatima, and Lourdes. I even tried to rationalize the Zeitun apparition, given that not a single word was spoken, and perhaps the Coptic Church could be seen as a middling ground between Muslims and Catholics. I was looking for something saying that the differences between the churches are cosmetic (and actually did find something, but given papal infallibility and the fact that the Copts have their own pope, I question this conclusion).

Your leg analogy should be restated like this: I’m really trying to find the right way, and show all my friends some serious evidence that the Catholic Church is the right way. If the head is the best way, then why throw not one, but two feints like that? Why make things more complicated than they already are?

In the end, I want to know what the Church has to say about this. Anyone know anything?


#9

Actually these apparitions were not just photgraphed. They were shown live on television. I remember seeing them.


#10

"How could this not be world shattering news? How could this not be on t.v. every night?

I TOTALLY KNOW WHAT U MEAN
THAT WAS AMAZING! THE HISTORY CHANNEL IS DOING A 3 DOCUMENTARIES ON DIVINE REVELATION ON SATURDAY NIGHT AND I SAW THAT ON THE COMMERCIAL. another thing iv read about Padre pio going through STIGMATA for 50yrs , which is impossible to fake and even scientists couldnt explain how he would bleed a teacup of blood everyday YET NONE OF THIS STUFF GOT THE MEDIA IT DESERVED!!!


#11

I’ve seen the photos in a booklet on the Zeitoun apparitions - they are terribly indistinct: at most, a white something-or-other, usually very high up. They could be anything

Are you serious?? Do you not see the photo I posted?

Indistinct? I don’t think so.

That’s probably they have attracted comparatively little attention.

I don’t think you guys realize how much attention it *did *get.

On of the articles written at the time, starts out with:

“MORE than a quarter million Egyptians and overseas visitors, attended a ceremony held at the Church of the Virgin Mary at Zeitun, near Cairo, to mark the first anniversary of an apparition of the Virgin Mary at and near this church. Although a year now has elapsed since the apparition was first reported, yet it is still appearing.”

That’s over 250,000 ppl at one ceremony.

There are articles of this event in papers from Germany, to France, Egypt of course and American papers such as the New York Times. As someone else mentioned it was televised as well. So it’s not like this was a little event in Egypt that no one was aware of.

I would run a thousand miles from a religion which tried to recommend itself by claiming an exclusive copyright on the acts of God.

I hope you are not implying in any manner that the Coptic Orthodox Church is doing such.

God Bless,
Elizabeth


#12

[quote=CSN]Exactly! That grilled cheese sandwich on e-Bay got tons of press, remember that one with Jesus or Mary on it?
[/quote]

I think the grilled cheese sandwich got so much press because it was laughable.


#13

[quote=CSN]I have been looking for quite some time for information on the Marian apparitions in Egypt. Mildly famous is Zeitun. When I first saw that, I thought to myself “How could this not be world shattering news? How could this not be on t.v. every night?” I attributed it to the less connected more insulated world of the 60’s. Then, sometime later, I heard that from 2000 to 2003, apparitions appear at Assiut. Again, I never heard a peep about this. I have seen some video, and it is quite intriguiging.

In any event, these incidents have had me wondering for a long time:

a) Why wasn’t this world-shattering news? I mean the ghostly image of a religious figure standing outdoors, for several years?

b) More importantly, why were the apparitions on top of Coptic churches both times? If I’m a Coptic, I’m thinking “Ok, don’t you think this pretty much settles the question of who’s right?”

I tried to argue in favor of Catholicism based on its virtual monopoly of scientifically verified miracles. But the ultimate miracle of our modern times is not even Catholic.

Anyone have any opinions?
[/quote]


#14

I’m looking for information on the Egyptian apparitions of Mary at Edfu in 1982; Shoubra, 1986 - 1991; Shentana El Hagar, 1997; Assuit, 2000 - 2001; and Gabal Dranka, since August 15, 2001.

Can anyone help me?


#15

Hello,

Well, this thread is from way back…

Have you tried Zeitun.org ? I found that site to have a lot of information regarding the Marian apparitions in Egypt…


#16

Yeah, I got a lot of good stuff from there. It’s a wonderful site.

I did a lot of research on this yesterday and got a lot of good information on the Assiut apparition, the Saint Demiana apparition, and the Shentena El-Hagar apparition. So that takes care of three of the ones I was looking for. I still can’t find anything much on the Edfu or Gabal Dranka apparitions. I’ve got most of what I was looking for now, though.

I’d still like anything more on those other two apparitions that anyone knows about.


#17

I am going out on a limb here, but not out of disrespect, but some things need to be said, if only once.

From what little I have actually seen (like the posted photos) it really is indistinct. I cannot tell from this that it is supposed to represent a female personage, let alone St Mary of Nazareth, mother of God. And that perfect “roundness” about the “head” looks a bit like a halo, but all the more because we expect halos to be round from holy images. I would not expect such a real-time image to follow artistic conventions so closely.

No doubt it is a marvel. I think there is a danger here that people will read into it what they expect to see, and possibly miss what they were intended to see. I would hope that there were close-up observations from deacons on the roof (or that sort of thing) which could give us an account of what the image represented to them.

[FONT=Arial]An other point I would mention is that I have not heard of this image giving messages. If that is so it is different form the most popular western apparitions in that regard.[/FONT]

Michael


#18

It was clearly a human form shining with light, with what looks like a halo overhead . . . that much is clear, though distinguishing features within the light would be more difficult for the camera to distinguish because the light was so intense, particularly contrasted with the night sky.

Here’s a better photo though, all the same. It shows the very obvious clear form of a dove shining over the head of the apparition, and you can see what clearly are flowing robes. The halo is even clearer than the other one and the shape of a human form is more distinct.
theworkofgod.org/aparitns/Zeitoun.htm

With that photo, it’s impossible to say that people are simply seeing what they want to see. We can all see it :).

The other photo that was posted here was pretty clear too, though. I prefer the one I posted above, of course. They’re both great, though.


#19

It looks like it could be Jesus.


#20

I expect that bystanders could spiritually sense the difference. They may have been able to see more than we could too, because the light/dark contrast with the photography wouldn’t work as well as human eyes present on the scene. There were tons of reports of spiritual sensing- even the Muslims on the scene and many of the Protestants thought it was Mary.

Also, there is a photograph of her carrying the Christ-child. I’m having a little trouble finding it at the moment . . .


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.