Marital seperation,What should I know?


#1

Looks like my wife and I are going to seperate. What things should I know to protect myself prior to getting a lawyer? Thanks.


#2

[quote="Samson01, post:1, topic:209835"]
Looks like my wife and I are going to seperate. What things should I know to protect myself prior to getting a lawyer? Thanks.

[/quote]

That divorce is illicit!


#3

You'll have to provide documentation for that statement. Divorce is a legal matter for the state for deal with. If married in the Catholic Church they will be sacramentally married unless/until they get a judgment of annulment from the Church.


#4

[quote="kelvinf, post:2, topic:209835"]
That divorce is illicit!

[/quote]

He didn't say divorce...he said separate. Separation is a licit way to determine if a marriage is even valid.

Determine who will maintain:
1) control of property (house, cars, computers other valuable assets)
2) control of children
3) control of income
4) control of debt

If SHE is the one who wants to leave then DO NOT MOVE OUT!!!! That is the best advice seeing many uncles and friend's fathers go through the same thing. If men retain their "castle" instead of limping off with their tails between their legs then they fare MUCH better, especally when it come to custody of the children.


#5

Ah, I guess I missed it. Maybe because of the reference to a lawyer.


#6

With no idea how this situation may ultimately play out, I would suggest that you begin to make copies of every document you can get your hands on so that there is no question about things that have transpired. This would include prior year tax forms, crdit card statements, bank & investment statements, insurance documents, mortgage papers and anything else you can think of. I also suggest that you begin a "diary" of sorts to keep track of events and statements that either of you participate in. Become informed about things like whose name all your household accounts are listed in and get a current credit report. Stop spending any money that isn't absolutely necessary. I'm sure there are more that I have forgotten but your lawyer can inform you of the other important things. Good luck.


#7

[quote="kelvinf, post:2, topic:209835"]
That divorce is illicit!

[/quote]

That is simply incorrect.


#8

You should know that if there are children involved, it is going to crush them completely. Their entire world is about to fall apart and they may *never *get over it. I've met men and women their 50s who cry like babies when they think about their parents' seperation and divorce. I've met others who never forgave their parents for the pain they put them through. Anyone who says you can manage a divorce while keeping the pain for the kids at a minimum is either lying or deluded. This event will forever shape the way they think about and deal with their own marriage, family, and children. You could potentially impact the next two generations of your family with your divorce. It is impossible to overstate how devastating it will be for your kids, if you have them.

What you need to do is stop worrying so much about how to protect yourself and worry about how you can protect your kids from this.


#9

This is so, so true. I still cry about my parents’ divorce and it happened 15 tears ago - I was an adult. I had a year of therapy to help deal with it, but it’s something I deal with every day.

PRAYERS for you and your family.


#10

So divorce is licit? (Of course I am not taking man-made (state) laws into consideration.)


#11

Divorce is never okay with the Church. An annulment doesn’t disolve a marriage, is says there was never a valid one in the first place. So even if someone gets a legal divorce, they will always be married in the eyes of the Church.


#12

Divorce is illicit except in certain cases as defined by canon law, as in adultery or grave mental or physical danger. This is what the Catechism says.

Divorce

2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble.174 He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law.175

Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death."176

2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.177

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:

If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another's husband to herself.178

It seems like the cases for a legitimate separation and legal divorce are very narrowly defined and someone who seeks a divorce except in one of those cases does commit a grave offense.


#13

[quote="KostyaJMJ, post:12, topic:209835"]
Divorce is illicit except in certain cases as defined by canon law, as in adultery or grave mental or physical danger. This is what the Catechism says.

It seems like the cases for a legitimate separation and legal divorce are very narrowly defined and someone who seeks a divorce except in one of those cases does commit a grave offense.

[/quote]

That divorce is licit in the case of adultery?


#14

[quote="kelvinf, post:13, topic:209835"]
That divorce is licit in the case of adultery?

[/quote]

No one said divorce is licit in case of adultery - what the quote from the CCC said was that divorce was licit in order to ensure physical or financial security or custody of children.

The reading on adultery is to show why remarriage after divorce is not licit except in cases where it is shown that there was not a valid Sacrament.

I have to ask - kelvinf- are you being dense on purpose or are you trying to learn because on threads such as these charity is important - these situations come with much emotional pain and the ones posting are usually the ones that are not walking out the door without a care in the world. so a bit of charity on your part would be nice and Christian.


#15

as defined by canon law, as in adultery or grave mental or physical danger…
[/quote]

Whoa. If you are referring to my first post, I must admit that I was rushing into a conclusion that is or might not necessarily be the case. I have always thought of separation as something temporal—a method that could be used to heal wounded marriages. I failed or fail to think of a case where the services of a lawyer could be necessary. And again, this is simply because I will separation to be something temporal.
1 Cor 7:11

–and if she does separate she must either remain single or become reconciled to her husband–and a husband should not divorce his wife.

One can’t accurately tell how a poster feels by simply judging on his or her posts or style of posting. joandarc2008, I am familiar with your username and I can understand why you seem to find my above post(s) dense, uncharitable or unchristian.

-] “chopped off” paragraphs.]/-]

Anyhow, I believe they should at least give you an inkling of how I wish that couples should respect their marital vows and that no one should put asunder what God has put together.


#16

Cool - it is tough to read tone in email so I apologize if I jumped to a conclusion.

In some states - even in a seperated state it is necessary to have a lawyer formalize seperation if it is going to go on for a while to protect assets - especially if custody arrangements of children cannot be agreed upon.

It is tough to talk about morality of a particular situation if one does not know what is going on.

Yes, divorce is an atrocious thing. What is more atrocious is those that get into marriage with no intention of staying in them. I personally IMHO equate that with fraud. It would be like someone entering the priesthood to get a date and then leaving when they meet the woman of their dreams - it is sick.

But, we need to know which spouse we are talking about - usually one is the victim. The one that had every intention of staying - and for that person - their world has ended. I cannot put into words what that is like - because even though I know God has graced me with an opportunity - This pearl has a lot of sand to clean out of her oyster first.


#17

[quote="joandarc2008, post:16, topic:209835"]
Cool - it is tough to read tone in email so I apologize if I jumped to a conclusion.

In some states - even in a seperated state it is necessary to have a lawyer formalize seperation if it is going to go on for a while to protect assets - especially if custody arrangements of children cannot be agreed upon.

It is tough to talk about morality of a particular situation if one does not know what is going on.

Yes, divorce is an atrocious thing. What is more atrocious is those that get into marriage with no intention of staying in them. I personally IMHO equate that with fraud. It would be like someone entering the priesthood to get a date and then leaving when they meet the woman of their dreams - it is sick.

But, we need to know which spouse we are talking about - usually one is the victim. The one that had every intention of staying - and for that person - their world has ended. I cannot put into words what that is like - because even though I know God has graced me with an opportunity - This pearl has a lot of sand to clean out of her oyster first.

[/quote]

That is why I strongly believe in a painstaking marital discernment process. And that is why I also question all forms of speed dating and even the active hunting of a spouse. (I understand a good number of people will disagree with me.)

We will be held accountable for our actions and we therefore need to learn how to make clever choices.

For instance, there is this catholic guy on CAF who said that he is betrothed to a pagan (or atheist but I am not so sure) after "knowing" her for 4 months. (If he actually "knows" her.) He said they met online and that the girl was/is recovering from a broken relationship. His problem was/is that the girl's parents don't approve of him but they (the would-be couples) intend to get married in circa 8 months (if my memory serves me right) although the girl was/is a bit uncomfortable with the whole stuff because of what her parents are saying. He also said something like he doesn't care much about what the church teaches.
So what if they get married and the "pagan" latter decides to divorce him because she probably just rushed into marriage in order to recover from her broken relationship? This gentleman then becomes a victim. He could start another thread and start saying all sorts of things about his spouse.
Well, he is responsible for his actions.

What I am trying to say (based on what I have noticed on this forum) is that, it is unfortunate that some people decide to make themselves vulnerable. Some singles think that they are more single than others, that being single is probably the worst state in life and that the church does not care about singles. Some view marriage as the fulfillment of all desires.
When one is desperate and focuses on finding a partner, his or her vision becomes clouded making it difficult to make clever choices.

Ok back to you. I can't claim of being able to relate to your situation but if there is one thing I can say, is that your world hasn't come to an end. I remember what you said on the "... women only" thread about desires. Well, it is something all of us who are single have to battle with on a daily basis.

[BIBLEDRB]1 Peter 5:9-10[/BIBLEDRB]
Whenever I fall, I always try to get up and continue the journey. And I keep telling myself that until I am able to have my desires under control, I am not ready for marriage. And I am also telling myself that if I get married and as soon as my marriage is consummated, then I should know that there is no turning back. It's for better or for worse and if I were to become a victim, I would reflect on the admonitions of St. Paul in his first epistle to the believers in Corinth re divorce, remarriage and perpetual singlehood.

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Kelvin


#18

[quote="kelvinf, post:17, topic:209835"]
That is why I strongly believe in a painstaking marital discernment process. And that is why I also question all forms of speed dating and even the active hunting of a spouse. (I understand a good number of people will disagree with me.)

We will be held accountable for our actions and we therefore need to learn how to make clever choices.

For instance, there is this catholic guy on CAF who said that he is betrothed to a pagan (or atheist but I am not so sure) after "knowing" her for 4 months. (If he actually "knows" her.) He said they met online and that the girl was/is recovering from a broken relationship. His problem was/is that the girl's parents don't approve of him but they (the would-be couples) intend to get married in circa 8 months (if my memory serves me right) although the girl was/is a bit uncomfortable with the whole stuff because of what her parents are saying. He also said something like he doesn't care much about what the church teaches.
So what if they get married and the "pagan" latter decides to divorce him because she probably just rushed into marriage in order to recover from her broken relationship? This gentleman then becomes a victim. He could start another thread and start saying all sorts of things about his spouse.
Well, he is responsible for his actions.

What I am trying to say (based on what I have noticed on this forum) is that, it is unfortunate that some people decide to make themselves vulnerable. Some singles think that they are more single than others, that being single is probably the worst state in life and that the church does not care about singles. Some view marriage as the fulfillment of all desires.
When one is desperate and focuses on finding a partner, his or her vision becomes clouded making it difficult to make clever choices.

Ok back to you. I can't claim of being able to relate to your situation but if there is one thing I can say, is that your world hasn't come to an end. I remember what you said on the "... women only" thread about desires. Well, it is something all of us who are single have to battle with on a daily basis.

[BIBLEDRB]1 Peter 5:9-10[/BIBLEDRB]
Whenever I fall, I always try to get up and continue the journey. And I keep telling myself that until I am able to have my desires under control, I am not ready for marriage. And I am also telling myself that if I get married and as soon as my marriage is consummated, then I should know that there is no turning back. It's for better or for worse and if I were to become a victim, I would reflect on the admonitions of St. Paul in his first epistle to the believers in Corinth re divorce, remarriage and perpetual singlehood.

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Kelvin

[/quote]

Kelvin- I will severely disagree with you on desires - and admonish you for putting out something from a women's only thread on to a mainstream one - it was in poor taste.

There is a huge difference between being in a single state and controlling desires - for those that actually do and going from the marital bed and having to learn to deal with those desires differently. It is like having a priest choose to be celibate who is a virgin and a priest take vows who is a widow or who has had an anullment.


#19

[quote="joandarc2008, post:18, topic:209835"]
Kelvin- I will severely disagree with you on desires - and admonish you for putting out something from a women's only thread on to a mainstream one - it was in poor taste.

There is a huge difference between being in a single state and controlling desires - for those that actually do and going from the marital bed and having to learn to deal with those desires differently. It is like having a priest choose to be celibate who is a virgin and a priest take vows who is a widow or who has had an anullment.

[/quote]

I don't think the effect of original sin is discriminatory. We have all inherited disordered sexual desires. Of course the strength of our disordered sexual drives varies from person to person—it depends on how one was brought up and how one handles his or her desires. (Chastity)

We all need to seek a redemption of our desires. And as Christopher West puts it:

This redemption isn't just for those who don't have a "legitimate outlet" for their sexual desires. It's for everyone, married people included. Marriage in no way legitimizes spouses' using one another just to "relieve" their disordered sexual desires. They too must experience the redemption of their sexuality if their lovemaking is to be just that—making love and not making lust.

That is why I believe it is advisable for singles to be able to live chaste lives before ever getting into marriage.

And as Jason Evert puts it:

Chastity is different because it is defined by what a person is doing with his or her sexuality. It means having the strength to use your sexuality according to God's plan, whether you are single or married.

For people who enter marriage with disordered sexual desires, then it gets really complicated for them. It was interesting for me to discover that married couples can actually commit adultery with each other. And as West puts it:

There are some married couples who have plenty of sex that actually violates their own wedding vows.

Since man must go through the state of singlehood, I believe it is very important for one to learn how to control his or her disordered sexual desires during this phase before moving into another phase like marriage or priesthood. And I believe failure to do this has its own associated consequences.

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Kelvin


#20

[quote="kelvinf, post:19, topic:209835"]
I don't think the effect of original sin is discriminatory. We have all inherited disordered sexual desires. Of course the strength of our disordered sexual drives varies from person to person—it depends on how one was brought up and how one handles his or her desires. (Chastity)

We all need to seek a redemption of our desires. And as Christopher West puts it:

That is why I believe it is advisable for singles to be able to live chaste lives before ever getting into marriage.

And as Jason Evert puts it:

For people who enter marriage with disordered sexual desires, then it gets really complicated for them. It was interesting for me to discover that married couples can actually commit adultery with each other. And as West puts it:

Since man must go through the state of singlehood, I believe it is very important for one to learn how to control his or her disordered sexual desires during this phase before moving into another phase like marriage or priesthood. And I believe failure to do this has its own associated consequences.

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Kelvin

[/quote]

And kelvin - you are making assumptions - I was in a physically, mentally, and sexually abusive marriage. I did not have a disordered sex drive when I entered my marriage nor do I have one now - nor have I been chastised this way by anyone else here on CAF - you are the only one here that seems to take bits and pieces out of context and judge. If you are going to read things and then cast things out where they were asked not to go the least you could do is get all your facts straight and go back through the last year of postings to when the first restraining orders were filed - learn a little Christian Charity on your own- and then maybe wear your own egg on your face when all of the decisions come up from the tribunal exactly as they have been predicted by countless people that deal with the tribunal day in and day out.


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