Marital sexual relations

A. Teaching of sexual morals for the married is lacking and it results in people going to hell.
B. Someone must teach this.
C. This talk

A^B :arrow_right: C

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Yes. It’s called onanism, for Onan, son of Judah.

And Juda took a wife for Her his firstborn, whose name was Thamar. [7]And Her, the firstborn of Juda, was wicked in the sight of the Lord: and was slain by him. [8] Juda, therefore said to Onan his son: Go in to thy brother’s wife and marry her, that thou mayst raise seed to thy brother. [9] He knowing that the children should not be his, when he went in to his brother’s wife, spilled his seed upon the ground, lest children should be born in his brother’s name. [10] And therefore the Lord slew him, because he did a detestable thing.

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The post said the talk was given to high school students, not married couples.

https://www.catholic.com/qa/catholic-theology-and-oral-pleasure

This pretty much sums it up which is in continuation of the writings of Saint Thomas Aquinas, Saint Alphonsus Liguori, and Saint Augustine.

You can’t stick it in the backdoor and I know that pornography has made it popular to stick it there and even in a person’s mouth but these technically are unnatural acts and the first is rather disgusting considering that that’s where persons defecate out of.

I’m not sure that giving a woman an orgasm during foreplay leading up to the marital embrace is as some moral theologians say a sin because for some women that’s pretty much almost impossible for that to not take place.

Plus orgasms cause lubrication and studies show help with fertilization and procreation which is completely pro-life.

Obviously they didn’t understand women’s reproduction in the middle ages the way that we understand today but overall the moral theologians I think are indisputable on most things.

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I disagree.

Today the media etc are much more open in describing and discussing details of sexual acts than they were when I was young and got married.

I don’t think the idea of intentionally ejaculating in this way would even have occurred to me at the time. But with the media so openly promoting it, the Catholic Church needs to take some counter measures and clearly state, even to those already married, that no.

Is this really so?

I’m reaching the age where, to put this in a delicate way because I know there may be young people reading, well, I’m reaching an age where the male sexual organ doesn’t respond as well as it used to and some manual stimulation is necessary to even get started …

So that’s a no go?

If a couple is infertile why does it matter where the seminal fluid is deposited?

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That is correct. The orgasm works by peristalsis and encourages the uptake of semen into the cervix . Which imo proves that contraception was never meant to be practised because the design of the body is pro life.

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I haven’t seen this discussed by any authoritative writer, but it seems the theology of the body makes the answer clear. Conjugal love is to express the total self-gift of each to the other: husband to his wife in his masculine way, wife to her husband in her feminine way.

For the husband, his semen - which carries the potency for life - signifies/expresses that total self-gift. That gift must be given into the center of life of his wife. The climax, for the husband, expresses within him the complete self-emptying which confirms his complete self-gift to her.

To consider the above and then “feel free” to dispose of the semen in an unworthy way, ought to be troubling.

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@tafan2 The OP did not specify what occurred before ejaculation. If he withdrew, how could that be defined as masturbation?

If you are old enough for this to be an issue, as I am also, you’re old enough to decide these sorts of things on your own using some common sense.

If you do want an outside opinion about the question, get your answers from a Priest, not some random people on the internet.

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Ok, we agree it is gravely wrong. We don’t have to agree on the precise definition of the term masturbation. My definition comes from the traditional term Onanism

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We do ourselves a disservice by trying to find loopholes with Catholic sexual ethics.

Especially in the case of a woman performing oral sex, one should ask: would our Blessed Mother, the Holy Virgins, all of our great female Saints approve of a woman performing such an act, regardless of whether or not it is just foreplay? It is an act contrary to the dignity of a woman.

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I have never been told this. Are you sure that this is the accurate teaching of the Church? I am not really doubting you as your sources appear to be authoritative. It is just very different to what I have been taught and what has been confirmed to me by a number of priests. I understood that what was prohibited was premarital sex, extramarital sex, homosexual sex, masturbation, artificial birth control, pornography, acts that involve ejaculation outside the vagina, and fetish activities if taken to the extent of violence causing physical injury. Other than that, I thought that heterosexual, validly married couples who are open to life and making love in a mutually giving manner had a broad discretion with regard to their preferred activities.

I am interested by the idea that fellatio is considered to be demeaning. Speaking as a married woman, I have never found it to be demeaning. As far you as understand Church teaching, is cunnilingus also considered to be demeaning for the husband? I had also always understood that sex toys are permitted provided they are used by the couple together and that the act is completed in the normal manner.

I feel like I should show this thread to a priest I trust in case I have misunderstood Church teaching until now.

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The Catholic Answers main site has answered this question before. @governator previously supplied the link earlier in this thread.

The only part of the Catholic Answers article that appears questionable, i.e. may be formally undecided but implicitly unapproved by previous Saints and teachings, is the sentence claiming that the husband may manually assist his wife before or after he finishes the act. Otherwise, the CA article makes clear that oral sex is not allowed in any circumstance.

I am grateful to have this pointed out. I believe that many otherwise faithful Catholics must be in error over this, as, seemingly, are some priests.

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This is a grave matter and the sin of Onan.

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The gravity of sin depends on other factors, this is a question only for your Confessor.

It is so very simple.

The marital act is to take place within the bonds of a valid marriage, between only the spouses, and ordered toward procreation. No need for a book that contains only one sentence.

That’s subjectively speaking, but the gravity for this sin is objectively grave.

Subjectively speaking if one doesn’t have full knowledge that some act is a sin, then they have not committed personal sin.

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