Marital sexual relations

The reason why it is wrong is not really tied to the fertility.

Just to play devils advocate, if they are in their late 50s then what is the possible reason to finish outside of the intended way?

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What? You do realise that this is the kind of attitude that Monty Python satirised in '‘Every Sperm is Sacred’? I would post a link, but it would be deleted.

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Pope Pius 12 says that neither the husband nor the wife may “complete” the sexual act outside of natural intercourse, for this is always intrinsically evil and against nature.
http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/fr/speeches/1956/documents/hf_p-xii_spe_19560519_fertilita.html

Saint Alphonsus says it’s a mortal sin to commit sodomy, even as foreplay, in which the husband climaxes later, during natural relations. And he condemns the idea that the wife or husband can bring the wife to climax after the husband withdraws.
On Matrimony, Book VI, Q. 916, 919

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Oral sex isn’t allowed. Oral stimulation is allowed. Stop conflating the terms, its confusing people.

Go by the book Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West.

We have this question come up every few weeks. The answer is ALWAYS the same. Oral stimulation is okay, oral sex is not.

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This is false. The entire purpose of Denzinger 2044 from Pope Alexander VII was to condemn Juan Caramuel de Lobkowicz’s “one rule” that sodomy is of the same species as masturbatory acts, procuring a pollution. This is what the pope was condemning. Therefore, the “one rule” must be false. The Holy See was not using this theory in the 1660s. Period. Then what could possibly make heterosexual sodomy different than pollution? Tradition answers this question: it is an undue mode of copulation.

Why trust Lobkowicz, who according to St. Alphonsus was the “Prince of the Laxists,” over the Doctors of the Church: St. Alphonsus, St. Peter Damian, St. Thomas, St. Albert the Great, and St. Augustine? Lobkowicz could probably make the record for holding the most positions that the Holy See then condemned. His positions in Denzinger 2044, 2149, 2150, etc, all over the place, were all condemned.

I must ask again, why would you go with Lobkowicz over the Holy See? People falsely claim a consistent orthodox tradition supporting the one rule. Almost every single theologian listed in St. Alphonsus’s Moral Theology claiming that these acts were not mortal sins, were condemned as laxists: Thomas Sanchez was condemned in Denzinger 2125, Tommaso Tamburini was condemned in Denz. 2125 (among other places), Caramuel was condemned in Denz. 2142, Antonio Diana was condemned in Denz. 2154, Martin de Azpilcueta was condemned in Denz. 2033, Marchant was condemned in Denz. 2065. Why are you trusting these laxist authors condemned by the Holy See in the 1600-1700s? Why not trust Saint Alphonsus, who was not condemned by the Holy See? (Rather, in Denzinger 2725, St. Alphonsus received absolutely astounding Magisterial affirmation. The decree said that the Holy See found nothing worthy of censure in his works and that you could safely hold his positions without weighing the arguments on either side. Wow, just wow.

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@ScouseGirl
You are correct! I was born in 1940 and taught, Catholic HS pre Vatican II, as long as the act is open to procreation and acceptable to both partners it is permitted. What you are hearing is a bunch of Catholic Pharisees wanting to micro manage people’s sex lives. IMO they can do what they want but shouldn’t try to burden others with their rules. In addition, you will be judged by what is in your heart and mind not what is in a rule book!

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You are distorting the teaching of the Catholic Church. Are you doing that intentionally?
Maybe we should start a thread on the morality of causing scandal.

People need to stop coloring the Church’s Teachings to support what they want. Stop making this a big scene and confusing people.

Oral stimulation is fine. Oral sex is not. Once again, read Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West. There is a section devoted to it.

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