Mariwan Halabjayee flees fatwa


#1

He had to flee to Sweden after writing a book on the history of the oppression of women in Islam. A fatwa was issued for his death. However, it is conditional. If he returns they “might” forgive him and give him 80 lashes with a whip. Then he will be referred to the fatwa committee to decide if he should be beheaded. He is in hiding with his pregnant wife and 3 children. This is of course a violation of human rights and his right to freedom of speech. I invite the Muslims and their allies to condemn this fatwa. Any takers?


#2

[quote=cestusdei]He had to flee to Sweden after writing a book on the history of the oppression of women in Islam. A fatwa was issued for his death. However, it is conditional. If he returns they “might” forgive him and give him 80 lashes with a whip. Then he will be referred to the fatwa committee to decide if he should be beheaded. He is in hiding with his pregnant wife and 3 children. This is of course a violation of human rights and his right to freedom of speech. I invite the Muslims and their allies to condemn this fatwa. Any takers?
[/quote]

What’s your source?


#3

I won the bet. Instead of condemning it you would try and deflect the issue. But okay www.jihadwatch.org. Now let’s see if I win the second bet.


#4

[quote=cestusdei]I won the bet. Instead of condemning it you would try and deflect the issue. But okay www.jihadwatch.org. Now let’s see if I win the second bet.
[/quote]

What a un-bias source huh? Let me go to answeringchristianity to learn about Christianity, how does that sound? Or let me go to a Nazi site to get news about Jews, what do you think? :wink:


#5

[quote=Emad]What a un-bias source huh? Let me go to answeringchristianity to learn about Christianity, how does that sound? Or let me go to a Nazi site to get news about Jews, what do you think? :wink:
[/quote]

The key word is “learn” in your post. The reason cestusdei doesn’t see the problem with using that source is that he isn’t interested in learing about Islam; he just wants to criticize and attack.


#6

[quote=pro_universal]The key word is “learn” in your post. The reason cestusdei doesn’t see the problem with using that source is that he isn’t interested in learing about Islam; he just wants to criticize and attack.
[/quote]

:clapping: :clapping:

I love open minded people!! :smiley:


#7

[quote=cestusdei]He had to flee to Sweden after writing a book on the history of the oppression of women in Islam. A fatwa was issued for his death. However, it is conditional. If he returns they “might” forgive him and give him 80 lashes with a whip. Then he will be referred to the fatwa committee to decide if he should be beheaded. He is in hiding with his pregnant wife and 3 children. This is of course a violation of human rights and his right to freedom of speech. I invite the Muslims and their allies to condemn this fatwa. Any takers?
[/quote]

Your posts leave me curious…is there any aspect of Islam that you like? Or are we all a bunch of crazy terrorist to you


#8

I won the second bet. Which was that you would impugn the source and avoid the subject of Mariwan. Now Mariwan is a muslim. Here I post something asking people to assist him. And what do you do? Attack me and refuse to confront the issue. So I am the one trying to help a muslim and you are attacking me for doing it. Oh the irony is rich. Liberals are so predictable. So are terrorists and their apologists.


#9

[quote=cestusdei]I won the second bet. Which was that you would impugn the source and avoid the subject of Mariwan. Now Mariwan is a muslim. Here I post something asking people to assist him. And what do you do? Attack me and refuse to confront the issue. So I am the one trying to help a muslim and you are attacking me for doing it. Oh the irony is rich. Liberals are so predictable. So are terrorists and their apologists.
[/quote]

If the source is garbage, the info is garbage. You want to assist some Muslims? I know plenty who need help. Many are converts to Islam who have been kicked out of there homes by thier Christian families, are boycotted, abused, threatened, not allowed to practice Islam. If you wish to assist, send me a private message and we can discuss what you can do.


#10

I read about muslim converts to Christianity. They are KILLED. I think that trumps getting yelled at by mom. If you want to help them then stop killing them.

If the source is wrong and it in fact quotes another source then show me. If it is correct then I the mean Christian am helping a muslim. And you refuse to do so. Which leads me to consider that you in fact AGREE with the fatwa.


#11

[quote=cestusdei]I **read ** about muslim converts to Christianity. They are KILLED. I think that trumps getting yelled at by mom. If you want to help them then stop killing them.

[/quote]

Where did you read? I never killed anyone too and I condemn every killing of anyone unjustly. Islamic law isn’t applicable without a khalifa.


#12

Ah so if a Caliph said, “yes kill the apostate or Mariwan” then you would have no problem?

Got you didn’t I? You don’t have a problem with Mariwan being killed. Just that you don’t have a Caliph to order it done. If you had one then there would be open season on us kaffir. This is exactly what I thought and why we don’t trust muslims.


#13

[quote=cestusdei]Ah so if a Caliph said, “yes kill the apostate or Mariwan” then you would have no problem?

Got you didn’t I? You don’t have a problem with Mariwan being killed. Just that you don’t have a Caliph to order it done. If you had one then there would be open season on us kaffir. This is exactly what I thought and why we don’t trust muslims.
[/quote]

I just love the way you put words in my mouth and how you come to your conclusions; only God knows. Yea you got me, :crying: perhaps you expect me to convert to Christianity now? :wink:

If you have a claim about Islam, back it up with evidence from the Quran and Sunnah as Sahiha, otherwise, your claims are just claims. :stuck_out_tongue:


#14

Whether one thinks “Islam” is great or “evil” or something in between the issue remains has official Islam now decided to condemn the killing of people who dare disagree with some of its actions? Part of the answer as I think most understand is that there is no “official Islam”. This situation may seem fine with those who are presently in no danger of being killed by some Muslim who decides you are worthy of death but for everyone else this situation is cruel and intolerable. The fact that no one here has condemned the practice leaves most of the rest of us wondering if friendship is possible. Surah 60 says that friendship between Muslims and non-Muslims is condemned. Is there hope that this situation will ever change? Will it ever be interpreted otherwise? Or is Islam determined to overwhelm us all with whatever means necessary? Will this mean that even Muslims who turn a light upon Islamic practices will forever being the object of murder by other Muslims or at least the threat of murder?

CDL


#15

emad,
Let’s get back to the point ie. do you agree with the fatwa. If your Caliph issued a fatwa to kill Mariwan or Abdul would you have any problem with it?


#16

[quote=cestusdei]emad,
Let’s get back to the point ie. do you agree with the fatwa. If your Caliph issued a fatwa to kill Mariwan or Abdul would you have any problem with it?
[/quote]

That seems like a fair question Emad. I have read your posts many times mentioning this Kalifa (sp?).

This should be a simple yes or no answer…

If the fictional country of " Islamland" was under proper Islamic rule based on your posts (ie led by Kalifa) would apostasy be an offense punishable by death?

Also could one be killed for denouncing Islam or Mohammed?


#17

[quote=GregoryPalamas]Whether one thinks “Islam” is great or “evil” or something in between the issue remains has official Islam now decided to condemn the killing of people who dare disagree with some of its actions? Part of the answer as I think most understand is that there is no “official Islam”. This situation may seem fine with those who are presently in no danger of being killed by some Muslim who decides you are worthy of death but for everyone else this situation is cruel and intolerable. The fact that no one here has condemned the practice leaves most of the rest of us wondering if friendship is possible. **Surah 60 says that friendship between Muslims and non-Muslims is condemned. ** Is there hope that this situation will ever change? Will it ever be interpreted otherwise? Or is Islam determined to overwhelm us all with whatever means necessary? Will this mean that even Muslims who turn a light upon Islamic practices will forever being the object of murder by other Muslims or at least the threat of murder?

CDL
[/quote]

No where in the Quran does it say not to take non-Muslims as friends.

060.008
Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
060.009
Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.


#18

[quote=cestusdei]emad,
Let’s get back to the point ie. do you agree with the fatwa. If your Caliph issued a fatwa to kill Mariwan or Abdul would you have any problem with it?
[/quote]

This is not a question I could answer for numerous reasons. One of them being their is no Islamic state. If there was a Khalif, the environment and situation would be different, thus the fatwa different. However in general I would agree with a fatwa if it agrees with the Quran and Sunnah, this fatwa doesn’t, thus I don’t agree with it.


#19

[quote=iamrefreshed]That seems like a fair question Emad. I have read your posts many times mentioning this Kalifa (sp?).

This should be a simple yes or no answer…

If the fictional country of " Islamland" was under proper Islamic rule based on your posts (ie led by Kalifa) would apostasy be an offense punishable by death?

Also could one be killed for denouncing Islam or Mohammed?
[/quote]

Islam doesn’t call for killing all apostates, only some. It is to be decided by a judge, a person leaving soley because he doesn’t believe Islam is the truth isn’t killed, meaning an intellectual apostasy, rather the one who is killed is the one who apostates and rebels against the Islamic state. Or one who is discovered to have accepted Islam with the intention to leave it to cause doubt in the hearts of Muslims:

003.072
A section of the People of the Book say: "Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers, but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) Turn back;

If such a person is caught doing this, with evidence of course, such a person will be punished. . During the treaty of Hudabiya, the Prophet peace be upon him agreed with the non-Muslims of Mecca that any Muslim who apostates will be allowed to go to Mecca and live with them without any harm from the Muslims. He also agreed that any non-Muslim in Mecca who wants to become Muslim isn’t allowed to come to Medina. This shows that not all apostates are punished, it also shows that it doesn’t matter where a true believer is, he would never apostate.

Also I don’t know what you mean about denouncing Islam and Muhammad, if you mean disbelieving after belief, the same applies as I said above. However if you mean criticizing, then no. Muslims are open to criticism about their religion, however Muslims don’t allow anyone to mock their religion or anyone elses religion for that matter.

006.108
Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did.


#20

[quote=Emad]Islam doesn’t call for killing all apostates, only some. It is to be decided by a judge, a person leaving soley because he doesn’t believe Islam is the truth isn’t killed, meaning an intellectual apostasy, rather the one who is killed is the one who apostates and rebels against the Islamic state. Or one who is discovered to have accepted Islam with the intention to leave it to cause doubt in the hearts of Muslims:

003.072
A section of the People of the Book say: "Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers, but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) Turn back;

If such a person is caught doing this, with evidence of course, such a person will be punished. . During the treaty of Hudabiya, the Prophet peace be upon him agreed with the non-Muslims of Mecca that any Muslim who apostates will be allowed to go to Mecca and live with them without any harm from the Muslims. He also agreed that any non-Muslim in Mecca who wants to become Muslim isn’t allowed to come to Medina. This shows that not all apostates are punished, it also shows that it doesn’t matter where a true believer is, he would never apostate.

Also I don’t know what you mean about denouncing Islam and Muhammad, if you mean disbelieving after belief, the same applies as I said above. However if you mean criticizing, then no. Muslims are open to criticism about their religion, however Muslims don’t allow anyone to mock their religion or anyone elses religion for that matter.

006.108
Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did.
[/quote]

Forgive me, Emad, but I don’t see how this is a moral thing. I appreciate your candor. But I don’t see how it is moral for anyone to execute anyone else over choice of religion, ever.


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