Mark of the Beast and other SDA claims: Apologetic

I don’t often bump into SDAs, but I did recently and it inspired me to write up this apologetic on the “number of the beast” [and the supposed papal title], “changing worship from Saturday to Sunday”, and “removing the 2nd commandment”.

I hope this is useful to someone who has a Seventh Day Adventist friend or family member, or anyone who might run into an SDA one day. :slight_smile:

Seventh Day Adventism and the Mark of the Beast

I dont know, Im a catholic and I struggle with this a bit, I have no graven images of any religious nature, not even crucifixes.

The verse…

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
— Exodus 20:4-6 (KJV)

Ive been in discussions about this before, I realize many say it means not to worship them, but the verse/commandment does not say that, it says NOT TO MAKE them, I think the CC has kind of interpreted this verse to their benefit.

Regarding God commanding the construction of golden cherubs for the Ark, in the OT, God also instructs his faithful to go out and kill others, sometimes even entire cities of people, yet there is a commandment about not killing…???

I think this boils down to, its ok for God, but not for us, if God instructs the building of golden statues or for his followers to kill others, its fine, he is God after all, but we, ourselves, cannot do these things, in other words, the 10 commandments are for us, NOT for God.

I assume if you are married and have children, that you don’t have any pictures of them or your spouse. If you do you are going against your interpretation of the commandment. Of course this would include any pictures of animals, fish etc. and any ceramic angels, or figures of anything on earth or heaven.

This type of mentally helped lead my daughter to her death. She had a brain disease and these types of prophets who spread this and last day websites contributed to her death. It caused tremendous fear and in the end her heart was affected. She just passed on and these types of comments cause me great pain and grief.

Of course if God ordered Cheubims in the Holy of Holies then from my own view He would be a hypocrite and not the God I have always believed in. God does not tell us to do one thing and He does the opposite, it doesn’t make any sense.

I noticed you said you were raised Catholic, I assume you are not Catholic now.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

Trust me, ahs is as Catholic as the Pope. :thumbsup: He was just giving us a resource to use when talking to SDAs (thanks, ahs).

Sorry I wasn’t referring to ahs, just the other poster. I know that just losing a child has made me very sensitive to all these crazy websites and people that believe in this. These beliefs did contribute to my daughter’s death as she had an enlarged heart and reading and conversing on facebook with these people terrified her.

God Bless

Bernadette

Ask the SDA if they watch television, moving images there, are they worshipping the actors?

The best defense to “the Roman Catholic Church and the Mark of the Beast” is letting them know what the Communist party did – infiltrating the church and seminaries with apostates. The papers of Venerable Fulton Sheen included testimony from a former Communist woman who said she worked to put pedophiles into Russian Orthodox seminaries.

I don’t see the SDA as enemies. I listened to their arguments against us, but maintained great sweetness toward them. I asked God where they were getting all of this negativity against us, and my thoughts were turned to Fatima. Then the sex abuse scandals broke.

I’ve known several SDA, and they were good friends. As much as they bad-mouth us Catholics, they listen to the pope just like anyone else does. “We can’t work on the Sabbath, but we can exercise,” said the children of recent converts to SDA. If you like cereal, thank an SDA. They’re vegetarians. They also follow Jewish food laws, and I’ve had to investigate such for myself. I’ve attended Saturday evening vigil Mass on a regular basis, and related this to the SDAs I knew.

We now know that the Communists and the Occult infiltrated the Vatican. The Illuminati and the “Gay Lobby” have been exposed. The rumor mill has said that the reason the consecration of Russia to the IHM hasn’t happened is due to death threats against the Holy Father from the Communists in the Curia. Another consecration wouldn’t hurt. BTW, Putin’s birthday is the Feast of Our Lady of the Rosary. (It’s also the anniversary of when the Fox News Channel went on the air).

So, to those Protestants who bad-mouth us, I say, “Thanks for the heads-up!”

Blessings,
Cloisters

When I was with my sda girlfriend, I studied a lot because of our bible study. At the bottom of my post is the book that I did.

A lot was to defend the catholic position from sda check it out

Do believe everything you read and people say to you?. Communist infiltration?
I know in the Orthodox church of Russia that was a problem and knowing they love to get their sticky fingers on anything. Particularly information.John Paul 2 knew how they worked and how to fight against them . JP2 and the Church (along with Reagan)help bring the evil empire down.So if you’re saying that the Commies hold some kind of control over the Church,
I suggest you read a good history book and not listen to drivel. I went through the era that saw commies everywhere.I mean, people were told to beware because they were so ubiquitous they just might pop up out of the toilet in your bathroom. When you hear people talking about Cabals, illuminati ,than it’s time to put your tinfoil hat on ,hunker down because you are going on a ride to paranoia land.
There are some real problems in the Church ,gay lobby being one of them.but this is not limited to Catholics , this is a real issue for many Christian churches. Occultism, Is growing outside the Church in leaps and bounds. Look at Brazil. They are very much out in the open. No need to hide. The so called Illuminatii belong in Dan Brown novels.
Sabbath? Properly Sabbath belongs to the Jews and Jews alone. They do not expect anyone to hold Shabbat except them. God made Israel his firstborn. Shabbat is a way of celebrating that bond and many Jews get really annoyed at the SDA for the attempted usurpation of the Sabbath. As my Jewish friend said, they ape the Jews but have no idea of the depth of anything they emulate. They think by going through motions connects them. It doesn’t.
We. Don’t celebrate the Sabbath ,we celebrate the Lord’s day.the intent of Sabbath and
Lord’s day are different and one is not the same as the other. Sabbath is a day ,sacred day of contemplation .Lord’s day is celebratory. Friday, after sundown ,the Jewish women welcome the sacred day in. This is to separate this day from all the others of the week.They are creating a sacred time and a sacred space. That is why there are prayers to welcome the Sabbath and prayers to say goodbye to that particular place and time. Time to back to ordinary time and space.
Lord’s day, begins Saturday, at dusk. We are not restricted to in how far we can go and what we are allowed or not allowed to do such as turning lights on and off because it is considered
Work.
How can they be vegetarians and celebrate Passover?.
As for as foods that the Jews are allowed or not comes out of Levitcus and the Holiness code.Holiness code was just one more thing that separate Jews from the rest of their neighbours and the taint of paganism. Again these laws are for the Chosen people alone , no one else.
Hour holiness code are the Beatitudes. Jesus declared all foods edible and Peter found out for himself in acts of the apostles chapter 10. The whole chapter should be read in context.
What God is saying, no unclean foods,no unclean people. What you say and do is whAt saves or condemns. Holiness code was there to keep the israelites separated and free from those who surrounded them. Acts says no separation by food or by nations,all are welcome,as the Holy Spirit boldly states in actions with Cornelius and Family. They are pagans ,eating and drinking what would be anathema to Jews. But before Cornelius can be baptised
Before anything even happens the Holy Spirit comes down on these pagans ,in full power.
That is not supposed to happen.Baptism is supposed to release the Holy Spirit! God is saying the Spirit will go where he wishes. Ultimately God is charge. And he as just changed around everything that Peter has believed . Food has nothing to do with goodness, your background
Can’t save you.only a close and personal encounter with the Living God can change you forever and free you from the bounds of sin.

I never look at the stars or up at the sky, not even to check for dark clouds.

The verse…

“And beware not to lift up your eyes to heaven and see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the host of heaven, and be drawn away and worship them and serve them, those which the LORD your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.”
–Deuteronomy 4:19 (NASB)

I realize that many say it means not to worship them, but the verse/commandment also says NOT TO LOOK AT THEM, I think the weather men have kind of interpreted this verse to their benefit.

Regarding God commanding Abraham to look up at the stars and try counting them, in the OT, God also instructs his faithful to go out and kill others, sometimes even entire cities of people, yet there is a commandment about not killing…???

I think this boils down to, its ok for God, but not for us, if God instructs people to look at the stars or his followers to kill others, its fine, he is God after all, but we, ourselves, cannot do these things.

See the logic problem?

:thumbsup:

I don’t buy into conspiracy theories. Satan will always be attacking the Bride of Christ, so there’ no reason to blame anyone for a conspiracy.
I fail to see what Fatima would have to do with it. And the sex abuse crisis is a world problem, not a Catholic problem. My question to folks who like to bring up the sex abuse crisis is this: “Given that child sex abuse occurs EVERYWHERE, and the fact that the Catholic Church stands alone in addressing it as fully as it has, what are YOU doing about it in YOUR community?”. And then I given them the actual facts and figures.

The Sex Abuse Crisis: What are Christians Doing About It?

Well, I hope you don’t have any photos of family either, or those cute little piano busts for music students, or any animals (my mother-in-law has tons of frog figurines) or ANYTHING. Recall that the command says “any likeness of any thing” (Ex 20:4, Deut 5:8, KJV, emphasis mine). So, you cannot logically restrict it to images of a religious nature.

Exactly, common sense!!

Bernadette

The article was well written, enjoyable, and effective; nice job.

However…this little gem:

Using the same formula as above, the name of the woman who started the Seventh-Day Adventist church, Ellen Gould White, ALSO adds up to 666. “Ellen Gould White” = L+L+V+L+D+V+V+I = 666. Does this fact prove that she is the beast and that the SDA is the harlot? I challenge any SDA to give an honest answer to this question, and explain why not.

…is just priceless!

:D:D:D LOL! :D:D:D




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Thank you, when we studied for 17 months this was my resource to defend our faith. She was surprised that we had answers but answers that made sense.

How do you explain all the verses where God commands we kill others, yet there is a commandment against killing, then the instance when God sends 2 bears to maul a large group of kids to death, so this is him doing something he instructed us not to do, and other times he has instructed us to kill others, so it does appear hypocritical.

I first heard it on EWTN radio (it may have been Dr. David Anders, or John Martignoni that pointed it out). I went to look it up to see if it was true, and found Patrick Madrid’s original “Pope Fiction” article (long before he published the book).
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/POPEAPOL.HTM#5

Why would any of this need to be explained? You are comparing apples to pigeons. We cannot murder (the actual meaning of the command) because we have no right to take a life…because it’s not ours to take. God gave life, and can freely take it at His Will. Add to that the fact that the wages of sin is death, and we are all guilty of sin…so God is only giving due justice. Why does it matter if He chooses to use His creation (men) to carry out justice? How is it murder (which would be against the command against murder) to obey God’s Will to use us to carry out His justice?

The fact is, the command you refer to says “ANY likeness of ANY thing”. So, if you are going to be logically consistent, you must necessarily renounce ANY likeness of ANY thing. This includes any photos of family, or those cute little piano busts for music students, or any animals (my mother-in-law has tons of frog figurines) or ANYTHING. The command says “any likeness of any thing” (Ex 20:4, Deut 5:8, KJV, emphasis mine). So, you cannot logically restrict it to images of a religious nature. Is this what you believe and hold to?

Hi Ahs,
you must look at these in a historical context. Many people get the mark of the beast wrong. When John of Patmos wrote Revelation he was referring to Emperor Nero not a future anti-christ. A google search will help explain what 666 really means and how to translate letters and numbers from teh ancient Greek alphabet.
Also nothing was removed from the 10 commandments, Martin Luther changed a few things around and the commandemts appear different in the KJB than in the Catholic. Protestants assume the RCC made these changes but that is not the case The commandents in the Catholic Bible are from th original Greek text. Again a internet search can help you understand this. Also do a search on the foudner of the SDA and their prohpet Ellan White they weren’t fans of the RCC which helps explain why SDA’s tend to attack the RCC.

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