Mark vs. Mathew in the eyes of Pope Benedict - is this true?


#1

After reading a post on this forum insinuating that Pope Benedict preferred or subscribed to Markan Priority, I did some research, and most specifically to his book "Jesus of Nazareth", and discovered some talk on the internet of Pope Benedict beveling in the fact that Mark wrote first.

I haven't read his book, so I ask you dear brothers and sisters, is this true? Has Pope Benedict actually stated that he believes Mark wrote first?

I can't find any text that states this from his mouth. Does it exist?


#2

I am pouring over as much internet material as I can, and I have found a few loose phrases like:

"Pope Benedict is a Markan priority supporter", but I can find any concrete statements.

What is the truth here?


#3

I found the page where i read the quote:

regulafide.blogspot.ca/2008/08/on-order-of-synoptic-gospels-catholic.html

Here is the two comments on the page:

"All that said, I know Pope Benedict is a Markan priority believer.. This is just one of the few areas I disagree with him on :)."

Pope Benedict is a Markan man for a reason, he can analyze the data and make sober conclusions.

I can't really find any other evidence, but what are these two people talking about??


#4

[quote="FishyPete, post:1, topic:345852"]
After reading a post on this forum insinuating that Pope Benedict preferred or subscribed to Markan Priority, I did some research, and most specifically to his book "Jesus of Nazareth", and discovered some talk on the internet of Pope Benedict beveling in the fact that Mark wrote first.

I haven't read his book, so I ask you dear brothers and sisters, is this true? Has Pope Benedict actually stated that he believes Mark wrote first?

I can't find any text that states this from his mouth. Does it exist?

[/quote]

I've read his book Jesus of Nazareth and there is nothing at all to even hint that he believes in Markan priority.


#5

[quote="thistle, post:4, topic:345852"]
I've read his book Jesus of Nazareth and there is nothing at all to even hint that he believes in Markan priority.

[/quote]

I thought as much, but i've come across the page i linked above and two others with comments on Benedict being a Markan Priority man, which I find really bizarre.

Has anyone heard of Pope Benedict either directly or in-direclty supporting the notion that Mark wrote first?


#6

On that same page i listed above, it says, and I quote:

"It has been stated that our most holy father Pope Benedict is a Markan priority man."

Where, where has this been stated???


#7

I must ask, why is this so important? The position of Markan priority or Matthean priority is a matter of scholarly opinion, not magisterial teaching. The magisterial authority of the Church has nothing to say about which came first, since it is not a matter of faith and morals. It is a matter of history and Biblical scholarship. If the Holy Father emeritus holds to Markan priority, big deal. And if he holds to Matthean priority, also, big deal.

Bear in mind as well that in the book Jesus of Nazareth he actually disclaims at the very beginning any notion that the book is meant to be official teaching, but merely the personal theological reflections of a man speaking privately as a theologian.

-ACEGC


#8

[quote="edward_george, post:7, topic:345852"]
I must ask, why is this so important? The position of Markan priority or Matthean priority is a matter of scholarly opinion, not magisterial teaching. The magisterial authority of the Church has nothing to say about which came first, since it is not a matter of faith and morals. It is a matter of history and Biblical scholarship. If the Holy Father emeritus holds to Markan priority, big deal. And if he holds to Matthean priority, also, big deal.

Bear in mind as well that in the book Jesus of Nazareth he actually disclaims at the very beginning any notion that the book is meant to be official teaching, but merely the personal theological reflections of a man speaking privately as a theologian.

-ACEGC

[/quote]

I agree with you, but I subscribe to Mathean Priority, and I was wondering if the former Pope actually DID subscribe to Markan Priority. In the end I know there is no real difference, but I came here for some clarity..

So I ask again, did/does Pope Benedict support Markan Priority?


#9

Let me state my question more clearly:

Did Pope Benedict ever directly or indirectly comment on the order of the Gospels?


#10

That’s what I thought. I’ve read it, too, but it’s been awhile. I could have missed it, but that would have been something I would have remembered.

If someone made that assertion, I would ask them to kindly provide a reference.


#11

Outside of the book, has anyone heard anything to lead one to believe that Pope Benedict supported Markan priority?


#12

Fishy-

You've asked the question eight times in less than two hours.

Sometimes you have to wait until folks come home from work, eat dinner, walk the dog, etc. before they have a chance to log in to the forum.

Give it a some time. :compcoff:


#13

[quote="Randy_Carson, post:12, topic:345852"]
Fishy-

You've asked the question eight times in less than two hours.

Sometimes you have to wait until folks come home from work, eat dinner, walk the dog, etc. before they have a chance to log in to the forum.

Give it a some time. :compcoff:

[/quote]

Sorry, just anxious to get some feedback! :o


#14

In the (online) book “The Mystical City of God”, which has been approved by Popes and bishops, St. Mary of Agreda said in a detailed account that the four Gospels were actually written in the same order in which they appear in the Bible, which accords with Tradition as well.

Anyway, it order of writing isn’t as important as who the actual authors were. Tradition, the above account and I myself believe that they and all the NT books were written personally or dictated by their declared authors.

Instead, many “modern” theologians and scholars try to claim that none of the above is true, which only tends to detract from the veracity and authenticity of the Books IMO.

I suggest you read this rather lengthy four-volume revelation above. It’s great.


#15

[quote="bsroufek, post:14, topic:345852"]
In the (online) book "The Mystical City of God", which has been approved by Popes and bishops, St. Mary of Agreda said in a detailed account that the four Gospels were actually written in the same order in which they appear in the Bible, which accords with Tradition as well.

Anyway, it order of writing isn't as important as who the actual authors were. Tradition, the above account and I myself believe that they and all the NT books were written personally or dictated by their declared authors.

Instead, many "modern" theologians and scholars try to claim that none of the above is true, which only tends to detract from the veracity and authenticity of the Books IMO.

I suggest you read this rather lengthy four-volume revelation above. It's great.

[/quote]

I will review those materials. Thank you, and I absolutely agree with you, but I am trying to get a handle of whether it is true or not that Pope Benedict actually made the statement of whether or not Mark wrote first.


#16

So it looks like the connection is this:

One of the easier Cardinal Ratzinger papers to find on the Internet is "The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church", which
was presented by the Pontifical Bible Commission in 1994 (Ratzinger wrote the Preface, as his role in presenting the PBC's paper and works to Pope JP II). Ray Brown was on the PBC, appointed by JP II as well as a prior Pope and I am sure you can find on Google that he and Ratzinger conferred regularly together - he was very well respected by the Vatican. Ray Brown was editor of the Jerome Biblical Commentary, which if you have it you will see it says that the majority of scholars today believe Mark's gospel was written first. You can find Ratzinger's preface here (ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HT) as well as the paper; in short, he too says that historical-criticism has come a long way, is valuable, but can be dangerous. Same message.

So is the connection between Pope Benedict and Ray Brown the answer?

Did Pope Benedict share Ray Browns belief that the Gospel of Mark was written first, or did Pope Benedict only support the study of scripture, and made no hard and fast decision?

Perhaps someone who has read the preface written by Pope Benedict mentioned above (the link seems to be broken) can provide some clarity?


#17

I cannot believe the things im reading about Ray Brown.

HOW did Pope Benedict support this guy??? wow!


#18

It would seem from his talk concerning the Apostle Matthew on 30/ August/2006, that Benedict supports Matthew as being the first Gospel, he states from this source ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/b16ChrstChrch17.htm;

"Lastly, let us remember that the tradition of the ancient Church agrees in attributing to Matthew the paternity of the First Gospel. This had already begun with Bishop Papias of Hierapolis in Frisia, in about the year 130.

He writes: "Matthew set down the words (of the Lord) in the Hebrew tongue and everyone interpreted them as best he could" (in Eusebius of Cesarea, Hist. Eccl. III, 39, 16).

Eusebius, the historian, adds this piece of information: "When Matthew, who had first preached among the Jews, decided also to reach out to other peoples, he wrote down the Gospel he preached in his mother tongue; thus, he aught to put in writing, for those whom he was leaving, what they would be losing with his departure" (ibid., III, 24, 6).

The Gospel of Matthew written in Hebrew or Aramaic is no longer extant, but in the Greek Gospel that we possess we still continue to hear, in a certain way, the persuasive voice of the publican Matthew, who, having become an Apostle, continues to proclaim God's saving mercy to us. And let us listen to St. Matthew's message, meditating upon it ever anew also to learn to stand up and follow Jesus with determination".


#19

[quote="DCNBILL, post:18, topic:345852"]
It would seem from his talk concerning the Apostle Matthew on 30/ August/2006, that Benedict supports Matthew as being the first Gospel, he states from this source ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/b16ChrstChrch17.htm;

"Lastly, let us remember that the tradition of the ancient Church agrees in attributing to Matthew the paternity of the First Gospel. This had already begun with Bishop Papias of Hierapolis in Frisia, in about the year 130.

He writes: "Matthew set down the words (of the Lord) in the Hebrew tongue and everyone interpreted them as best he could" (in Eusebius of Cesarea, Hist. Eccl. III, 39, 16).

Eusebius, the historian, adds this piece of information: "When Matthew, who had first preached among the Jews, decided also to reach out to other peoples, he wrote down the Gospel he preached in his mother tongue; thus, he aught to put in writing, for those whom he was leaving, what they would be losing with his departure" (ibid., III, 24, 6).

The Gospel of Matthew written in Hebrew or Aramaic is no longer extant, but in the Greek Gospel that we possess we still continue to hear, in a certain way, the persuasive voice of the publican Matthew, who, having become an Apostle, continues to proclaim God's saving mercy to us. And let us listen to St. Matthew's message, meditating upon it ever anew also to learn to stand up and follow Jesus with determination".

[/quote]

Thanks for your input!!

Though, I cannot access the link you posted.


#20

[quote="FishyPete, post:19, topic:345852"]
Thanks for your input!!

Though, I cannot access the link you posted.

[/quote]

Maybe this one will work.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20060830_en.html


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