Maronite Might! - Vortex episode on Maronite Catholics

youtube.com/watch?v=z54nPzoyW8E&feature=g-u-u&context=G25c477dFUAAAAAAAHAA

I’m sure our many of our Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters will enjoy this. You will have to overlook Voris calling it Mass instead of Divine Liturgy repeatedly but it is still worth a watch.

Peace,

Personally, I’m not in the least offended by the use of the word “Mass” in English translation and in fact I prefer it. It’s generic and gets the message across. OTOH, the term “Divine Liturgy” is Byzantine and is really not used by any of the Oriental Churches.

That said, I was offended by the use of the term “Maronite Catholic” in that video clip. There is no such thing as a “Maronite Catholic” Church. It is simply the Maronite Church.

In any case, while I wasn’t particularly impressed with the video clip in general, I will refrain from further comment.

Now this is as good a time as any to learn about the Maronite Catholics…

The Maronites are just a rite of the Catholic Church right? Or am I wrong?

They’re a self-governing church with their own traditions that’s in communion with the Pope.

I’m just posting here because I am a huge(!) fan of Michael Voris’ The Vortex. I’m so glad to see others bringing him up here.

As glad as I am that the Maronites are thriving in Sidney, Mr. Voris’ video is fraught with inaccuracies, not to mention his typical doom-and-gloom attitude.

First, the Catholic Church is not comprised of nearly two dozen “Rites.” The Catholic Church is a communion of particular Churches sui iuris. I would’ve hoped that someone with an Ecclesiastical degree, such as Mr. Voris, would be aware of that. The Maronite Church is simply one of those Churches. A Rite refers to the Liturgical usage of a particular Church sui iuris. There is, for example, really no such thing as the “Byzantine Church,” but there are a number of particular Churches sui iuris that utilize the Byzantine Rite (i.e. Ruthenian, Ukrainian, Russian, Melkite, Romanian, Italo-Albanian, etc.). As I like to say, a Rite belongs to a Church, not a Church to a Rite.

Secondly, Mr. Voris falls into the trap that many Roman Catholics fall into, that is, overly romanticizing the East. The Eastern Catholic Churches have their own set of problems, liturgical abuses, clericalisms, etc., etc., etc. Just because they aren’t the same as those of the West doesn’t mean that they aren’t there. The Maronites are certainly no exception. Poor translations, bad music, and poorly celebrated Qurbonos are not uncommon occurrences. The Churches which utilize the Byzantine tradition often struggle from those same problems. We also have the problem of ethnic divisions, which many/most of our bishops have recognized hinder our efforts at evangelizing the people and culture around us.

Instead of citing poorly celebrated Liturgies/Masses/Qurbonos etc. as the main cause of decreased Mass attendance in the West, I think there is a bigger issue; complacency. We in the West have simply become too comfortable. The Roman Church in particular has become too comfortable in its mass numbers and has thus eased up on its efforts at evangelization. This is why John Paul II called for a new evangelization, which means evangelizing the Faithful first. But if you look at countries where the Church is persecuted, the numbers are actually growing. “The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church.”

Interesting. That is the first I have heard of that.

Thanks!

The grass is never quite greener on the other side.

:thumbsup:

Though I do admire much about the Eastern Tradition, I don’t have any intention of becoming and Eastern Catholic. I had just not heard that there were any sort of widespread issues in terms of the liturgy in the Eastern Churches.

Yes, the video is very enjoyable to watch. And good to hear that it’s flourishing, though I do hope they keep the Syriac (and Arabic.) It’s a very beautiful liturgy.

“Divine Liturgy” may or may not be a Byzantinization, but certainly “liturgy” would be appropriate (if for some reason people can’t bring themselves to “qurbono”)? In Coptic, it is “ti-Anaphora pi-Agios (Basilios, Kyrillos, Gregorios)”, which is self explanatory, though I have seen certain (few) translations used by Copts that use “Divine Liturgy” (such as the Gregorian Liturgy as presented by the Pope Shenouda III Coptic Orthodox Theological College in Sydney, available for perusal in PDF form here). So I’m afraid that saying that it is not used by any Oriental church is not true…whether it should be so is, of course, another matter. My home copy (1992) just says “Coptic Liturgy of St. Basil”, which makes me wonder if the adoption of “Divine Liturgy” is a recent fad. It’s not like we don’t know it’s divine unless we use that phrase…!

That said, I was offended by the use of the term “Maronite Catholic” in that video clip. There is no such thing as a “Maronite Catholic” Church. It is simply the Maronite Church.

Surely that’s an oversight and you meant Syriac Maronite Church, Malphono. :wink:

Define “issues in terms of the liturgy”. There are intense debates about what litanies to include or exclude; prayers for and dismissal of the catechumens; the placement and number of repetitions of the Beatitudes; whether or not those not partaking in the Eucharist should come forward for a blessing; etc. And don’t even get me started on the calendar issue.

And all this is just my knowledge of that which goes on within Churches which utilize the Byzantine rite (both Catholic and Orthodox).

The point is that there are plenty of issues but that if you are not in certain circles, you will never hear of them. These things may seem “minor” to you compared to the changes that Vatican II brought to the ordo of the Mass, but I can assure you these things are considered deeply serious. Case-in-point: take a look at the controversy of the Nikonian reforms in the Russian Orthodox Church, and the resulting Old Believer schism and all that ensued thereof.

There aren’t that many of us to flood the interwebz with our non-stop whining :wink:

He said “less than 14-percent” but the graphic said >14% :blush::blush::blush:

This not why I’m a math major. Using my psychological training, I have to wonder what this really means! ;):smiley:

youtube.com/watch?v=H1zTifPvFIY

Thanks for sharing the video. Unfortunately, the data indicating that about fifty percent of Maronites attend divine liturgy is actually misleading. As of 2006, only 0.92 percent of Australians identified as being of Lebanese heritage; the Maronites are concentrated in the land of the cedars, and not all immigrants to Australia from the country are going to be of that rite, let alone of the Christian faith.

So, unless they’ve managed to bring in a lot of non-Lebanese-Australians, the real number of those attending divine liturgy in Maronite parishes is a drop in the bucket.

PS: That link is actually broken now; another thread was just started here about the video where another, working link was provided.

This thread should be merged with the one here on the subject of this video.

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