Marriage


#1

Hi, Can a catholic marry a First Presbyterian in their church and still remain a catholic in good standing? What are some of the alternatives if this is not possible.? thanks.


#2

Yes - they will just need permission and some of the differences in faith will need to be discussed in pre-marriage counseling before hand. Also the non-Catholic party makes the agreement to interfere with the Catholic party living by his/her faith or raising the children in the Catholic Church. Also the wedding MUST take place in the Catholic Church unless separate dispensation is given.


#3

The Non-Catholic doesn’t have to agree to anything about the Catholic living their faith or about children. That agreement is made by the Catholic with the Non-Catholic’s knowledge.


#4

I believe they have to agree not to interfere. There is the difference. I could be wrong on this.


#5

[quote="maryjk, post:3, topic:249793"]
The Non-Catholic doesn't have to agree to anything about the Catholic living their faith or about children. That agreement is made by the Catholic with the Non-Catholic's knowledge.

[/quote]

It's a little more than that. The Catholic makes the promise but the non-Catholic is asked to affirm that he knows about the promise and understands the seriousness of the promise. The permission to marry a non-Catholics is dependent on the priest believing that the mixed-marriage will not be a danger in terms of the practice of the Catholic's faith.


#6

It is possible, but the couple (particularly the Catholic) needs to talk to their priest before the wedding takes place.

As per Canon Law, all Catholics are bound to be married in a Catholic Church before a priest or deacon (and two witnesses). However, if the circumstances warrant it, those contracting a mixed marriage can receive a “dispensation of form” in order to be allowed to be married in a different church. The couple’s priest would be in a better position to judge whether or not their particular situation warrants it.

And, of course, as others have said, there are certain promises that need to be made and understood. Again, the priest will tell the couple everything they need to know.


#7

But the non-Catholic is never asked to make a promise. Which is my point.


#8

I disagree - it is the part when the non-Catholic gets in front of everyone in the Church after all that marriage prep knowing what is expected of them and says “I do.” If their intention was “I don’t” and it can be proven then this is grounds for decree of nullity as this is not valid consent towards the Sacramental nature of marriage.


#9

[quote="Hawk_1, post:1, topic:249793"]
Hi, Can a catholic marry a First Presbyterian in their church and still remain a catholic in good standing? What are some of the alternatives if this is not possible.? thanks.

[/quote]

Yes, the Catholic needs to make an appointment to see their priest to request the necessary dispensations and permissions. The couple still needs to take the Catholic marriage prep as well. The priest will want to make sure the non Catholic understands the obligations of the Catholic to live by our church teachings on marriage and child raising etc.


#10

I don’t remember where in the vows the word “interfere” comes.

I do remember agreeing that I came freely of my own will, that I would honor my husband and that I would accept children loving from God. He did the same.


#11

[quote="maryjk, post:10, topic:249793"]
I don't remember where in the vows the word "interfere" comes.

I do remember agreeing that I came freely of my own will, that I would honor my husband and that I would accept children loving from God. He did the same.

[/quote]

No it is not in the vows but the application of your vows was thoroughly explained to you or should have been thoroughly explained to you in your pre-marital counseling.

Canon 1059 The marriage of catholics, even if only one party is baptised, is governed not only by divine law but also by canon law, without prejudice to the competence of the civil authority in respect of the merely civil effects of the marriage.

Canon 1063.1 by preaching, by catechetical instruction adapted to children, young people and adults, indeed by the use of the means of social communication, so that Christ's faithful are instructed in the meaning of christian marriage and in the role of christian spouses and parents;

Canon 1063.2 by personal preparation for entering marriage, so that the spouses are disposed to the holiness and the obligations of their new state;

Canon 1063.3 by the fruitful celebration of the marriage liturgy, so that it clearly emerges that the spouses manifest, and participate in, the mystery of the unity and fruitful love between Christ and the Church;

Canon 1063.4 by the help given to those who have entered marriage, so that by faithfully observing and protecting their conjugal covenant, they may day by day achieve a holier and a fuller family life.

Canon 1064 It is the responsibility of the local Ordinary to ensure that this assistance is duly organised. If it is considered opportune, he should consult with men and women of proven experience and expertise.

Canon 1101.2 If, however, either or both of the parties should by a positive act of will exclude marriage itself or any essential element of marriage or any essential property, such party contracts invalidly

CHAPTER VI: MIXED MARRIAGES

Canon 1124 Without the express permission of the competent authority, marriage is prohibited between two baptised persons, one of whom was baptised in the catholic Church or received into it after baptism and has not defected from it by a formal act, the other of whom belongs to a Church or ecclesial community not in full communion with the catholic Church.

Canon 1125 The local Ordinary can grant this permission if there is a just and reasonable cause. He is not to grant it unless the following conditions are fulfilled:

Canon 1125.1 the catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith, and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power in order that all the children be baptised and brought up in the catholic Church;

** Canon 1125.2 the other party is to be informed in good time of these promises to be made by the catholic party, so that it is certain that he or she is truly aware of the promise and of the obligation of the catholic party.**

**Canon 1125.3 both parties are to be instructed about the purposes and essential properties of marriage, which are not to be excluded by either contractant.**

Canon 1126 It is for the Episcopal Conference to prescribe the manner in which these declarations and promises, which are always required, are to be made, and to determine how they are to be established in the external forum, and how the non-catholic party is to be informed of them.

Canon 1127.1 The provisions of canon 1108 are to be observed in regard to the form to be used in a mixed marriage. If, however, the catholic party contracts marriage with a non-catholic party of oriental rite, the canonical form of celebration is to be observed for lawfulness only; for validity, however, the intervention of a sacred minister is required, while observing the other requirements of law.

Canon 1127.2 If there are grave difficulties in the way of observing the canonical form, the local Ordinary of the catholic party has the right to dispense from it in individual cases, having however consulted the Ordinary of the place of the celebration of the marriage; for validity, however, some public form of celebration is required. It is for the Episcopal Conference to establish norms whereby this dispensation may be granted in a uniform manner.

Canon 1127.3 It is forbidden to have, either before or after the canonical celebration in accordance with 1127.1, another religious celebration of the same marriage for the purpose of giving or renewing matrimonial consent. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the catholic assistant and a non-catholic minister, each performing his own rite, ask for the consent of the parties.

Canon 1128 Local Ordinaries and other pastors of souls are to see to it that the catholic spouse and the children born of a mixed marriage are not without the spiritual help needed to fulfil their obligations; they are also to assist the spouses to foster the unity of conjugal and family life.

** Canon 1129 The provisions of cann. 1127 and 1128 are to be applied also to marriages which are impeded by the impediment of disparity of worship mentioned in canon 1086.1.
**


#12

I never said the non-Catholic spouse was aware of the promises made. Simply that

The Non-Catholic doesn’t have to agree to anything about the Catholic living their faith or about children. That agreement is made by the Catholic with the Non-Catholic’s knowledge.

You went on to say

I believe they have to agree not to interfere. There is the difference. I could be wrong on this.

But for some reason even after I posted the vows, you started quoting the Canon.

All I am saying, is at no time does the non-Catholic spouse have to promise to raise the children Catholic. I didn’t get married in the Church because I had been told that by some well meaning person. Problem is, it isn’t true. It took me 11 years to find out. When I did, we had our courthouse wedding convalidated.


#13

So instead the Catholic party in your marriage went without the Eucharist for ten years rather than raise the children Catholic which is what is required of the Catholic party? :eek: And yes if you go back and read the Canon it is required that the non-Catholic party not interfere - if dispensation is granted to marry outside the Church these things must still be in effect and agreed to. If no dispensation is granted and the Catholic party is married outside of the Church the marriage is not licit.


#14

[quote="joanofarc2008, post:13, topic:249793"]
So instead the Catholic party in your marriage went without the Eucharist for ten years rather than raise the children Catholic which is what is required of the Catholic party? :eek: And yes if you go back and read the Canon it is required that the non-Catholic party not interfere - if dispensation is granted to marry outside the Church these things must still be in effect and agreed to. If no dispensation is granted and the Catholic party is married outside of the Church the marriage is not licit.

[/quote]

No, there is no such agreement made by the non-Catholic.

You can't just go by Canon Law, there is also the Directory on Ecumenism in which the Church recognizes that the non-Catholic has as much right and may have as much desire to raise the children in his/her own faith.

  1. When, for a just and reasonable cause, permission for a mixed marriage is requested, both parties are to be instructed on the essential ends and properties of marriage which are not to be excluded by either party. Furthermore, the Catholic party will be asked to affirm, in the form established by the particular law of the Eastern Catholic Churches or by the Episcopal Conference, that he or she is prepared to avoid the dangers of abandoning the faith and to promise sincerely to do all in hisher power to see that the children of the marriage be baptized and educated in the Catholic Church. The other partner is to be informed of these promises and responsibilities.142 At the same time, it should be recognized that the non-Catholic partner may feel a like obligation because of hisher own Christian commitment. It is to be noted that no formal written or oral promise is required of this partner in Canon Law. (...)

151.** In carrying out this duty of transmitting the Catholic faith to the children, the Catholic parent will do so with respect for the religious freedom and conscience of the other parent and with due regard for the unity and permanence of the marriage and for the maintenance of the communion of the family.** If, notwithstanding the Catholic's best efforts, the children are not baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church, the Catholic parent does not fall subject to the censure of Canon Law.143 At the same time, hisher obligation to share the Catholic faith with the children does not cease. It continues to make its demands, which could be met, for example, by playing an active part in contributing to the Christian atmosphere of the home; doing all that is possible by word and example to enable the other members of the family to appreciate the specific values of the Catholic tradition; taking whatever steps are necessary to be well informed about hisher own faith so as to be able to explain and discuss it with them; praying with the family for the grace of Christian unity as the Lord wills it.


#15

That would be me. I was a nominal Catholic, so it really wasn’t a big deal. And the problem was, if something happened to me, then my husband would have to worry about being responsible for raising our children Catholic.

The funniest part is that my husband was baptized Catholic. So no dispensation was needed when we did get married.


#16

I never said your husband was responsible - I said your husband was not to interfere. There is a difference. One is an action was is a non-action. I am confused how you can state he is a non-Catholic but baptized. :shrug:


#17

Because at the time, I didn’t know he had been baptized. I am not sure he knew. His parents had him baptized then never took him to church.

So he considered himself a non-Catholic. He still doesn’t call himself Catholic. But of course the Church still claims him.

And what I said was, we had been told by a well meaning person, that didn’t know what she was talking about, that he had to agree to raise the children Catholic. That is an action.

And just because we weren’t married in the Church didn’t mean that I didn’t raise my son Catholic. You read too much into my post. So you can stop the :eek:

So instead the Catholic party in your marriage went without the Eucharist for ten years **rather than raise the children Catholic **which is what is required of the Catholic party?


#18

Regardless - you said that you did not marry in the Church because this “well-meaning person” gave you bad information. So rather than being forced to raise the children Catholic should something have happened to you which is what you would have perceived the Church would have required of you - you chose to separate yourself from the Eucharist - the source and summit of all ecclesiastical life. Yes that is a :eek:. I am sorry if you feel I am being harshed but you are the one that offered your situation as a case study as to how things should be done. I am glad that you have gotten your convalidation and I hope that your husband embraces baptismal promises. God bless you both on your marriage.


#19

You are still not getting it. I never had a problem raising our son Catholic. The problem came that my husband was told that he had to agree to raise them Catholic.

And of course I separated myself from the Church. As I said, I was a nominal Catholic.

I never stated that my situation was a case study of how anything should be done. I mentioned my situation as a reason why YOU should know of what you speak before you start typing.

And again, I will say,

There is nothing in the vows that state anything about the non-Catholic raising the children Catholic or about not interfering with the Catholic doing so. There is no agreement by the non-Catholic referencing the Catholic Church. They simply are made aware of the promises made by the Catholic party.


#20

Can there be two marriage ceremonies. One in the Presbyterian church and one in a catholic church.?


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