marriage


#1

Is jesus happy today in this modern generation with the role the husband takes in marriage and the role that the wife takes in the marriage.I think in a lot of marriages in this generation are different than lets say 50 years too 60 years ago.My question is why is it different?Or why should it be different?The love we have for Jesus Christ is the same in this generation as since Adam and Eve, in the start of time.And i hope i dont offend anyone with this qustion!!
Is it men that have failed to act in Gods way in the marriage or is it the womens fault.Jesus gave the man a role and gave the women a role in marriage.We are both equal in Gods eyes.But what about the roles?Have we failed Jesus in our roles we are meant to take.Sometimes i notice husbands and wives too simlar to compare in marriages.Maybe the lines are too blurred to easily see and understand.But what i think is irrelevnt when i should follow jesus’s laws.


#2

Personally I do see that, think men and women have different roles, not always easy but complimentary. If living the right roles I think they decrease the bad tendencies of the other and increase the good. I think feminism kinda reverses it they become on two parallel tracks but not intimately interacting in a complementary dance. Plenty will disagree but it’s just what I’ve experienced, observed, studied. Equal in dignity but not identical as persons I suppose. Marriage isn’t about “the individual” getting “fulfillment” it is about sanctifying both spouses for heaven. I think if people remembered that it would work better, but we live in such an individual focused culture.


#3

Forgive my relative lack of knowledge of scriptures, but which laws did Jesus give with regard to roles in marriage?


#4

[quote="on_the_hill, post:3, topic:303807"]
Forgive my relative lack of knowledge of scriptures, but which laws did Jesus give with regard to roles in marriage?

[/quote]

  • The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:
  1. The human person, created in the image of God, is a being at once corporeal and spiritual [body and soul]. The biblical account expresses this reality in symbolic language when it affirms that "then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being" [Gen 2:7]. Man, whole and entire, is therefore willed by God.
    1. The Church, interpreting the symbolism of biblical language in an authentic way, in the light of the New Testament and Tradition, teaches that our first parents, Adam and Eve, were constituted in an original "state of holiness and justice" [Council of Trent, Denz 1511]. This grace of original holiness was "to share in...divine life" [Vatican II LG 2].
    1. The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man [Vatican II GS 13:1] . Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents [Council of Trent, Denz 1513; Pope Pius XII Denz 3897; Pope Paul VI AAS 58 (1966), 654].
  1. Scripture portrays the tragic consequences of this first disobedience. Adam and Eve immediately lose the grace of original holiness [Rom 3:23]. They become afraid of the God of whom they have conceived a distorted image -- that of a God jealous of his prerogatives [Gen 3:5-10].

  2. How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam "as one body of one man" [St. Thomas Aquinas, De Malo 4:1]. By this "unity of the human race" all men are implicated in Adam's sin, as all are implicated in Christ's justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state [Council of Trent, Denz 1511-1512]. It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" -- a state and not an act.

Those are some of the relevant passages from the Catechism on the literal existence of Adam and Eve as "our first parents" which the Fathers, Doctors, and Popes have always affirmed in the Catholic Church. Pope Pius XII who wrote on human origins and science in his 1950 encyclical Humani Generis can be summarized on the subject as follows:

(1) The question of the origin of man's body from pre-existing and living matter is a legitimate matter of inquiry for natural science. Catholics are free to form their own opinions, but they should do so cautiously; they should not confuse fact with conjecture, and they should respect the Church's right to define matters touching on Revelation.

(2) Catholics must believe, however, that the human soul was created immediately by God. Since the soul is a spiritual substance it is not brought into being through transformation of matter, but directly by God, whence the special uniqueness of each person.

hope this helps

Shalom
God Bless


#5

Thanks, aragonjohn.

Maybe I misunderstood the OP. I thought catholicsaint was asking about specific roles, as in: defined roles for married men and defined roles for married women.


#6

Yes iam talking about the roles of the husband and wife in marriage.It is like a twisted game full of warped minds and individualism in todays couples.In my marriage i take the role of the wife in its full and true meaning that i believe was thaught by Jesus Christ.Remember all 3 are God.Father,son and holy spirit.My husband protects and provides for me and i look after children and the house.We have a loving marriage and we both are God fearing people.I feel very sorry for young people these days.It is extremely difficult to find a good person that has the values of God.Thank you all for your answers.:slight_smile:

God bless,
catholicsaint


#7

on_the_hill ,
I have been trying to find what Jesus Christ teached about marriage roles.But maybe God as in before Jesus came back,teached in the old testament .Maybe there was no need re-afirm what we already know of in the old testament.Maybe iam wrong.:shrug::frowning:

If anybody knows what jesus teached about the marriage roles please enlighten me.
[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]


#8

[quote="catholicsaint, post:7, topic:303807"]
on_the_hill ,
I have been trying to find what Jesus Christ teached about marriage roles.But maybe God as in before Jesus came back,teached in the old testament .Maybe there was no need re-afirm what we already know of in the old testament.Maybe iam wrong.:shrug::(

If anybody knows what jesus teached about the marriage roles please enlighten me.
[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]

[/quote]

Off the top of my head, a few weeks ago the Gospel was about when the scribes/pharisees questioned Jesus about Mosaic law and divorce. Jesus replied that Moses allowed divorce among the people because of the times they lived in but under the new covenant 'what God brings together let no man put asunder.'

So in that respect, there is a redirection from the Old T to the New T.

The Gospel led to an interesting homily, in which the priest essentially said that Jesus's teaching contravenes Paul's notion that women should be submissive to their husbands. :shrug:


#9

Glad i could help :smiley:

Shalom


#10

I believe that in Jesus’s day both Father and Mother lived at home with their families. Dad worked from home, and while Mom probably spent most of the time watching the kids I bet she would have chipped in to help from time to time. The kids themselves would have helped dad out as well. Imagine a family of tailors for instance. What happens when dad has a big order to fill? I bet mom helps cut fabric, or sew one or two pieces while watching the kids. I bet the older kids help out too, grabbing supplies or materials to run to mom and dad. The whole family is united and working together.

That changed when work moved from in the home to outside the home. Someone had to leave for the office/factory, and the newborn infant couldn’t come along too, so someone had to stay behind. Mom seemed like the best choice for practicle reasons. Thus dad went to work and mom stayed home. The family was split during the day while one parent went to work. I think the ideal family is one where mom and dad can work from home and raise the kids together, the way they would have in the past. However, in today’s world that is not very possible and so we try to do the best we can to support our family.

Husbands and wives should have a mutual respect for what the other does to support their family on getting to heaven. Providing is not more valuable than childrearing they are both equally important to the success of the family. Couples who choose to play to their strengths because they lack the appropriate skills to succeed at their traditional gender role are doing so to raise a better and holier family. They are not trying to scorn God’s will only to fulfill God’s will to raise many souls that can join him in heaven. That’s why I believe the roles of husband and wives aren’t one size fits all, just as there is no one path to sainthood. If a couple has prayerfully discerned that discarding some or all traditional gender roles is the best path to lead their family, children and all, to heaven, then their marriage will be just as successful as one where spouses prayerfully discern to embrace traditional gender roles.


#11

on_the_hill…

Just my 2 cent’s here but i would say that Saint Paul’s veiw in which was taken from Jesus himself would be correct and maybe that preist you were talking about was incorrect.Why should we put faith in someone who is not a saint.I think saint hood should out rank that preist.


#12

I guess that’s what I’m wondering about. Where did Jesus say that?


#13

Paul outlines these roles very clearly in Ephsians 5.

Eph 5:21-33
21 Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Wives’ role
22 Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord.
23 For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body.
24 As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything.

Husbands’ role
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her
26 to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word,
27 that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
28 So (also) husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
29 For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church,
30 because we are members of his body.
31 “For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”

A great mystery
32 This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church.
33 In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband.


#14

Paul does, yes.

The question is: where did Jesus say it?

I'm not trolling. I really want to know.

Frankly, if my wife were submissive to me, and I were the undisputed head of my household, we'd be living in a cardboard box.


#15

Dear On_the_hill–

This is how my marriage worked too. In matters where my husband, God rest his soul, had greater knowledge/experience, of course he “took the lead” and made the decisions based on having a better understanding. But in matters where I had greater knowledge/experience, I took the lead. That’s the only way a partenership can prosper–each person doing what he or she does best, regardless of stereotypical gender roles.

I raised my daughters alone, and raised them to be able to change a flat or fix their own plumbing just as I taught them to cook and make a bed.

I’ve been a single mom for almost 12 years. You are not doing you children any favors by reinforcing outdated stereotypes of “male stuff” and “female stuff.” When my sister’s father-in-law passed, her mother-in-law was completely helpless–she had never paid a bill in her life, had no idea how much money she had (didn’t even know where the checkbook was kept!), had no idea how to do even routine maintenance on her house or car. I do not want that to happen to my daughters.

Jala


#16

Jala–

I’ll add: my wife is measurably and demonstratively more intelligent than I am. I have a Masters degree in a “soft” science. She has a PhD in engineering. I spent professional my life behind a desk. For a time, she worked in a steel mill, on the casting deck.

More generally, in my experience (which we needn’t get in to), I’ve found, in general, women are more capable leaders than men are, in general. Women cooperate and work together better than men do, even when they don’t like each other. They take direction better, generally speaking. Generally, they are more conscience about their work.

Put a 17 year old girl on a job, and I’ll be willing to bet she’ll try harder than a 17 year old boy.

No doubt, there are times when a woman’s naturally more compassionate nature might be a disadvantage. But that doesn’t mean all the other times she’s any less capable than a man. Generally speaking.


#17

I as a women of 28 years of age,would not and will never do hard manual work.My husband does all of that.And i think my husband should look after me.And in return i look after the house and do my Godly duties i am suppose to do.I just think men shouls be real men and not try to confuse things becasue then if i was a bad person i could use that to my advantage.Then again each to there own.Culture can really mess with peoples minds and warp there ways of acting good and thinking.


#18

All books in the Bible are inspired; it doesn’t matter who say it but at least the Bible is clear about the roles of Christian husbands and Christian wives. That should be sufficient to guide us in marriage life.

Jesus did not say it. You should read the Bible. I am not trying to be rude but a casual read of the Gospels, which are quite short books, would help.

In any case, the guide on Ephesians 5 should be the principle for Christian marriage.

Many husbands or wives do not understand these verses, but the condition for the wives to be submissive to the husband is when that husband loves her like how Jesus loves the Church. That’s means he has to die to the self as Jesus did, consider his wife’s body like his own and cleanse her with his word like how Jesus cleanses us with his word (the Bible). Paul said speak to each other with words of psalms and songs. This should be applied even more for the husband to his wife.

A wife could only love a husband if that husband can love her truly in holiness. Do not expect your wife to be submissive to you if you lord it over her or if you are not a man of God. A wife also cannot be submissive to a husband if the husband brings her to sin.


#19

To be submissive is probably against the run of what the world thinks about marriage. But consider this:

A great mystery
32 This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church.
33 In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband. Eph 5:32-33

It is a mystery but this kind of husband-wife relationship is God's original plan for us as is the relationship of Jesus and the Church (the bridegroom and the bride). It is through our sins and disobedience that our marriage has not been faithful to this original concept. Christian marriage means to bring the marriage back to God's original plan as is the people (Church) and God.


#20

The Bible was written by men (people) and men (people) are fallible. Inspired or not. We’d do a lot better as Catholics, I feel, if we’d spend less time on Paul and more time on some of the others.

This discussion isn’t going to lead anywhere productive.


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