Married outside the church


#1

I'm a protestant, I married a Catholic before my annulment went though so we had a courthouse wedding with a Minister there.

I made my vows to my husband and my God. I meant them with all my heart and soul.

5 months later he has decided that because we didn't get married in his Catholic church, that we're not really married and he left me and his unborn child.

He's waiting for God to tell him what to do.
I know we need to work on our family, but because he doesn't really see us as married, he doesn't believe we need to try.

I don't understand.

Thoughts or advice?


#2

[quote="Annette23, post:1, topic:244599"]
I'm a protestant, I married a Catholic before my annulment went though so we had a courthouse wedding with a Minister there.

I made my vows to my husband and my God. I meant them with all my heart and soul.

5 months later he has decided that because we didn't get married in his Catholic church, that we're not really married and he left me and his unborn child.

He's waiting for God to tell him what to do.
I know we need to work on our family, but because he doesn't really see us as married, he doesn't believe we need to try.

I don't understand.

Thoughts or advice?

[/quote]

Waiting for God eh? is he..

I don't have any advice, besides that you remind him that he has consummated marriage with you and is a father now, so he needs to get his act together.

Does his family knows how he has degraded you?
I can assure you that his behaviour is not Catholic behaviour.


#3

[quote="Annette23, post:1, topic:244599"]
I'm a protestant, I married a Catholic before my annulment went though so we had a courthouse wedding with a Minister there.

I made my vows to my husband and my God. I meant them with all my heart and soul.

5 months later he has decided that because we didn't get married in his Catholic church, that we're not really married and he left me and his unborn child.

He's waiting for God to tell him what to do.
I know we need to work on our family, but because he doesn't really see us as married, he doesn't believe we need to try.

I don't understand.

Thoughts or advice?

[/quote]

It's not true that you are not "really" married. If you are looking for a Catholic position, a spouse has a duty to his wife and children even if the marriage was not a valid one. And even an invalid marriage is no excuse to abandon a child.

I married a Catholic before my annulment went though

Does this mean that you now have a decree of nullity for your prior marriage? The usual course would be for the priest who initiated the annulment to then get your current marriage convalidated.


#4

[quote="GraceDK, post:2, topic:244599"]
Waiting for God eh? is he..

I don't have any advice, besides that you remind him that he has consummated marriage with you and is a father now, so he needs to get his act together.

Does his family knows how he has degraded you?
I can assure you that his behaviour is not Catholic behaviour.

[/quote]

His family isn't Catholic.
His mom is a Christian of some other denomination and I've thought about e-mailing her but wasn't sure if it was appropriate.

I keep trying to remind him but he's stuck on waiting to talk about it until he's done with his search for answers.

I don't see how he could hear God saying anything besides "forgive and work on your family."


#5

[quote="Corki, post:3, topic:244599"]

Does this mean that you now have a decree of nullity for your prior marriage? The usual course would be for the priest who initiated the annulment to then get your current marriage convalidated.

[/quote]

The annulment still hasn't gone though yet for the previous marriage. He says that because we're not married in the church that we can't even live together to work it out. That living together is a sin....


#6

[quote="Annette23, post:5, topic:244599"]
The annulment still hasn't gone though yet for the previous marriage. He says that because we're not married in the church that we can't even live together to work it out. That living together is a sin....

[/quote]

It's true that you shouldn't be living together until your annulment process is complete and your marriage is convalidated. That's not the same as trying to work things out and decide how to do the best thing for your child.


#7

[quote="Corki, post:6, topic:244599"]
It's true that you shouldn't be living together until your annulment process is complete and your marriage is convalidated. That's not the same as trying to work things out and decide how to do the best thing for your child.

[/quote]

This is not completely true. You two could live together as brother and sister and he could still receive the Eucharist (of course all of this should be gone over with a priest) provided he was eligible to receive the Eucharist before. (This means that he had his Sacraments of Initiation such as First Eucharist) Living as brother and sister is difficult however your child - his child - the product of a natural marriage that it sounds like you entered into on the best of intentions without all of the facts about the faith deserves to have a mother and a father if at all possible.

Were there other issues going on when he left besides the marriage? I personally think your next course of action is to speak to his priest. That may be all the message from God he needs.


#8

[quote="joanofarc2008, post:7, topic:244599"]
This is not completely true. You two could live together as brother and sister and he could still receive the Eucharist (of course all of this should be gone over with a priest) provided he was eligible to receive the Eucharist before. (This means that he had his Sacraments of Initiation such as First Eucharist) Living as brother and sister is difficult however your child - his child - the product of a natural marriage that it sounds like you entered into on the best of intentions without all of the facts about the faith deserves to have a mother and a father if at all possible.

Were there other issues going on when he left besides the marriage? I personally think your next course of action is to speak to his priest. That may be all the message from God he needs.

[/quote]

We are getting more technical than the OP needs here. Yes, they could live together as brother and sister but that is only supposed to happen under the direction of his Confessor as a way to restore access to the Sacraments. I may be wrong, but it doesn't sound like restoring his Sacramental life, is what is driving this guy's decisions.


#9

[quote="Corki, post:8, topic:244599"]
We are getting more technical than the OP needs here. Yes, they could live together as brother and sister but that is only supposed to happen under the direction of his Confessor as a way to restore access to the Sacraments. I may be wrong, but it doesn't sound like restoring his Sacramental life, is what is driving this guy's decisions.

[/quote]

He hasn't taken communion since we got married. One priest he confessed to told him he was living in sin and wouldn't even hear his confession until he stopped living with me.


#10

[quote="joanofarc2008, post:7, topic:244599"]
This is not completely true. You two could live together as brother and sister and he could still receive the Eucharist (of course all of this should be gone over with a priest) provided he was eligible to receive the Eucharist before. (This means that he had his Sacraments of Initiation such as First Eucharist) Living as brother and sister is difficult however your child - his child - the product of a natural marriage that it sounds like you entered into on the best of intentions without all of the facts about the faith deserves to have a mother and a father if at all possible.

Were there other issues going on when he left besides the marriage? I personally think your next course of action is to speak to his priest. That may be all the message from God he needs.

[/quote]

We ended our apartment lease with the intention of moving West to settle.
Instead he had planned on going West and forcing me to move back with my parents.

He said he'd been angry for months, that we fought too much.
It started when we miscarried the first baby. He never talked about it or seemed sad. He claimed he was stressed about about work.

I don't understand why he never told me he was mad.
If he had, we could have found someone to talk to.
But because he worked at a Catholic school he figured they'd fire him if they found out we got married outside the church, so we weren't able to talk to a priest.

I've suggested living together like that until we figure out if things would or won't work but he says that's a sin also. If we don't, then I have to stay 1,400 miles away and he'll miss the birth of his child.


#11

[quote="Corki, post:8, topic:244599"]
We are getting more technical than the OP needs here. Yes, they could live together as brother and sister but that is only supposed to happen under the direction of his Confessor as a way to restore access to the Sacraments. I may be wrong, but it doesn't sound like restoring his Sacramental life, is what is driving this guy's decisions.

[/quote]

You are probably right. I did mention that it was something that should be discussed with a priest if you go back and check my comments. Also when one is trying to save a marriage even if it is one that is not convalidated and there is a child involved it is only fair to give all the information. This is just my opinion. Like I said a good place to start is his priest since he seems to be using his faith in Holy Mother Church more as a way out and a weapon than he does to restore a Sacramental life. However all of this goes with the caveat that there are two sides to every story.


#12

He does have a responsibility to stop "living in sin," but that could mean living as brother and sister with you until your marriage can be convalidated (assuming your annulment comes through).

However, he has a responsibility to you and your children, regardless of when or how they were conceived. It seems very irresponsible of him to abandon his family right now in the name of not living in sin. He can cease living in sin while still supporting his family.

Have you talked to the priest, personally, and told them that your husband has abandoned you and his children?


#13

[quote="wanner47, post:12, topic:244599"]

Have you talked to the priest, personally, and told them that your husband has abandoned you and his children?

[/quote]

I had to move back in with my parents so I'm no where near our old priest. I am trying to make an appointment with one up here. (Michigan)

He had talked to one in Tennessee and one in Wyoming.

I can't talk to my Protestant Pastor, as he doesn't understand the Catholic ways and would be of no help.


#14

[quote="Annette23, post:13, topic:244599"]
I had to move back in with my parents so I'm no where near our old priest. I am trying to make an appointment with one up here. (Michigan)

He had talked to one in Tennessee and one in Wyoming.

I can't talk to my Protestant Pastor, as he doesn't understand the Catholic ways and would be of no help.

[/quote]

I still suggest talking to the priest who is handling the annulment as a starting point. You can always call him and ask his advice.


#15

[quote="Corki, post:14, topic:244599"]
I still suggest talking to the priest who is handling the annulment as a starting point. You can always call him and ask his advice.

[/quote]

Thanks.
I never did think about that. I liked that priest.


#16

[quote="Annette23, post:13, topic:244599"]
I had to move back in with my parents so I'm no where near our old priest. I am trying to make an appointment with one up here. (Michigan)

He had talked to one in Tennessee and one in Wyoming.

I can't talk to my Protestant Pastor, as he doesn't understand the Catholic ways and would be of no help.

[/quote]

Have you talked to a lawyer as well? You need to make sure you get the financial support to which you and your children are entitled, regardless of the outcome of your marriage.


#17

[quote="Annette23, post:1, topic:244599"]
I'm a protestant, I married a Catholic before my annulment went though so we had a courthouse wedding with a Minister there.

I made my vows to my husband and my God. I meant them with all my heart and soul.

5 months later he has decided that because we didn't get married in his Catholic church, that we're not really married and he left me and his unborn child.

He's waiting for God to tell him what to do.
I know we need to work on our family, but because he doesn't really see us as married, he doesn't believe we need to try.

I don't understand.

Thoughts or advice?

[/quote]

If you're annulment hadn't been approved yet then it means according to the Church that you aren't yet freed from your previous marriage.you're new husband must have been aware of this since you married outside the Church.Why did he do that?in a sense he was marrying into an adulterous relationship.Then he says you 2 aren't married.You never mentioned if he had been previously married.yes,i believe that the 2 of you aren't legally married not because of you but because he broke Church law(IMO).I really think the best thing to do is to talk to a Catholic priest and explain the matter.i wouldn't wait for his reply from God.


#18

[quote="valentino, post:17, topic:244599"]
If you're annulment hadn't been approved yet then it means according to the Church that you aren't yet freed from your previous marriage.you're new husband must have been aware of this since you married outside the Church.Why did he do that?in a sense he was marrying into an adulterous relationship.Then he says you 2 aren't married.You never mentioned if he had been previously married.yes,i believe that the 2 of you aren't legally married not because of you but because he broke Church law(IMO).I really think the best thing to do is to talk to a Catholic priest and explain the matter.i wouldn't wait for his reply from God.

[/quote]

He had been, but he had an annulment many years ago.
And he thought it enough wrong to know that his job at a Catholic school was in danger if they found out.

I had no idea that it was such a big deal to the Catholic church.
We made our vows to God. That's all that has ever mattered to me.


#19

[quote="Annette23, post:18, topic:244599"]
He had been, but he had an annulment many years ago.
And he thought it enough wrong to know that his job at a Catholic school was in danger if they found out.

I had no idea that it was such a big deal to the Catholic church.
We made our vows to God. That's all that has ever mattered to me.

[/quote]

You made vows to your first husband as well, however, and the Catholic Church considers those vows equally valid unless it can be proven that there was an impediment to your first marriage at the time it was attempted. In that case, a marriage didn't actually exist.

It is still wrong for your husband to abandon you and his children. Regardless of the validity of your marriage, he has an obligation to care for you and your children and it is equally sinful for him to shirk that responsibility.


#20

[quote="Annette23, post:18, topic:244599"]
He had been, but he had an annulment many years ago.
And he thought it enough wrong to know that his job at a Catholic school was in danger if they found out.

I had no idea that it was such a big deal to the Catholic church.
We made our vows to God. That's all that has ever mattered to me.

[/quote]

This is why the priest needs to be involved. I think covering up the issue by lying and not supporting his wife from a natural marriage would be worse. You both need to be discussing this with your old priest. I am so sorry this is happening to you. Please reach out to your old pastor. This is not Catholic or in anyway Christian and please do not let it reflect on the Catholic Church.


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