Mary and Grace


#1

In reading through a website on church dogma I found the following principle:

“Since Mary’s Assumption into Heaven no grace is conferred on man without her actual intercessory co-operation. (Sent. pia et probabilis.)”

Does this sound correct? It sounds as though no mercy (grace) can be provided without her intercessory prayer.

Thanks for your feedback in advance


#2

[quote=robertjohn]“Since Mary’s Assumption into Heaven no grace is conferred on man without her actual intercessory co-operation. (Sent. pia et probabilis.)”

Does this sound correct? It sounds as though no mercy (grace) can be provided without her intercessory prayer.
[/quote]

“Mediatrix of all grace” is a title I have heard thrown around. That’s about all I could say…


#3

Here is one way to look at it:

Mary was born without the stain of Original Sin. Through her fiat at the Annunciation, she became the New Eve through which our Redeemer came into the world. Her one-time act of faith made possible our redemption and therefore she is called the Co-Redemptrix (and I’ll reiterate what is often said, this does not make her equal with Christ).

However, even after this initial cooperation with God’s grace, Mary retained her free will and her capacity to choose sin of her own accord. Following Christ’s death and resurrection, Mary herself completed her earthly life and was assumed body and soul into Heaven having never sinned. She was granted the Beatific Vision and crowned Queen of Heaven.

Mary now exists in perpetuity with God, as do all the Saints. This existence is not only perpetual (i.e. forever), it is eternal (i.e. outside of time). Mary’s fiat, her initial acceptance of God’s call, has therefore been made eternal as well and therefore the graces brought into the world through her initial acceptance are now infinitely extended as she cooperates with God’s grace in heaven. She is rightly called Mediatrix because God’s grace is now mediated through Mary, the New Eve as a result of this eternal fiat.


#4

*You are all fair, O Mary,
and the original stain is not in you.
You are the glory of Jerusalem,
You are the joy of Israel,
You are the honor of our people,
You are the Advocate of sinners!
O Mary, Mary,
Virgin most pure,
Mother most merciful;
Pray for us,
Intercede for us with Our Lord Jesus Christ. It is truly proper to glorify you who have borne God;
the Ever-Blessed and Immaculate Mother of our God.
More honorable than the Cherubim
and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim,
Who a virgin gave birth to God the Word.
You, truly the Mother of God, we magnify! :blessyou: *


#5

I believe Dr. Collosus’s explanation is right on target. In my somewhat more simplistic way of putting ot, Grace comes to us through Mary because Christ came through Her. As Dr. C. noted, her sinless life, both before and after the birth and death of the Lord, preserved her status as the channel through which the grace of our redemption flows.


#6

[quote=Dr. Colossus]Here is one way to look at it:

Mary was born without the stain of Original Sin. Through her fiat at the Annunciation, she became the New Eve through which our Redeemer came into the world. Her one-time act of faith made possible our redemption and therefore she is called the Co-Redemptrix (and I’ll reiterate what is often said, this does not make her equal with Christ).

However, even after this initial cooperation with God’s grace, Mary retained her free will and her capacity to choose sin of her own accord. Following Christ’s death and resurrection, Mary herself completed her earthly life and was assumed body and soul into Heaven having never sinned. She was granted the Beatific Vision and crowned Queen of Heaven.

Mary now exists in perpetuity with God, as do all the Saints. This existence is not only perpetual (i.e. forever), it is eternal (i.e. outside of time). Mary’s fiat, her initial acceptance of God’s call, has therefore been made eternal as well and therefore the graces brought into the world through her initial acceptance are now infinitely extended as she cooperates with God’s grace in heaven. She is rightly called Mediatrix because God’s grace is now mediated through Mary, the New Eve as a result of this eternal fiat.
[/quote]

A beautiful and simple statement. Thank you.

Maggie


#7

[quote=robertjohn]In reading through a website on church dogma I found the following principle:

“Since Mary’s Assumption into Heaven no grace is conferred on man without her actual intercessory co-operation. (Sent. pia et probabilis.)”

Does this sound correct? It sounds as though no mercy (grace) can be provided without her intercessory prayer.

Thanks for your feedback in advance
[/quote]

May I ask you which website you read this on? I don’t think that this is the only valid interpretation of Mary’s intercessory power.

In other words, I think that this is a point of view (perhaps a common one) not necessarily binding upon the faithful exactly as expressed here.

I am open to other people’s opinions on this point but I certainly would like to know the source of this quote.


#8

First, Thank you for the feedback.

Second the cut and paste quotation is from a hot link provided by Salmon on a post I have on the next page.


#9

[quote=robertjohn]In reading through a website on church dogma I found the following principle:

“Since Mary’s Assumption into Heaven no grace is conferred on man without her actual intercessory co-operation. (Sent. pia et probabilis.)”

Does this sound correct? It sounds as though no mercy (grace) can be provided without her intercessory prayer.

Thanks for your feedback in advance
[/quote]

The hotlink provided was:
Dogmas of the Catholic Church

The item questioned is #165

The items listed as “De Fide” are proclaimed dogmas.

Item #165 is categorized as “Sent. pia et probabilis”

sententia -ae f. [a way of thinking , opinion, thought, meaning, purpose; a decision, vote; meaning, sense of words, etc.; a sentence, period]; esp., [a maxim, aphorism].

probabilis -e (1) [probable , credible]. (2) [acceptable, good]. Adv. probabiliter, [probably, credibly].

Not a dogmatic proclamation, in other words, but a “probable” conclusion derived from other revealed truths.

You can exhale, now.

Peace in Christ…Salmon


#10

previous post failed to bump…pardon


#11

O’ Blessed Mother I offer my prayers today for the glory of God the Father and for Your Son Jesus and for Your disposition to suffering souls in purgatory. May you accept deliverance of my prayers and pray Your Son Jesus to bestow His graces upon those souls in need or desiring His Mercy. I pray if but one soul needs just one more prayer then please let this be that prayer.


#12

Once again thank you for your feedback, best wishes, and I hope you enjoy your weekend.


#13

You know I have read all the responses, but I have to post this because this is what I have found and it does make me wonder about what I have believed.
This is what I have found and the year each belief was introduced. Does this not shake one’s foundation?

Beginning of the exaltation of Mary; the term, “Mother of God” applied a Council of Ephesus……………. 431 A.D.
[font=Verdana]** Prayers to Mary & dead saints ……600 A.D. **[/font]
[font=Verdana][font=Verdana]The Rosary ……1090 A.D. [/font][/font]
[font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana]Transubstantiation-Innocent III ……1215 A.D. [/font][/font][/font]
[font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana]Adoration of the wafer (Host)……1220 A.D. [/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana]Immaculate Conception of Mary……1854 A.D. [/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana]**Assumption of the Virgin Mary **(bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death) ……1950 A.D. [/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana]Mary proclaimed Mother of the Church……1965 A.D.[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]
[font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana][font=Verdana]I have to wonder what is going on???[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]


#14

so what’s your point? besides being off topic, your post doesn’t really prove anything. boettner is fond of a similar tactic, and i wonder if that’s where you got this list. these doctrines weren’t created or invented at those times. instead, something was defined that had always been believed. for more on this, see the following:

The Anti-Catholic Bible
Catholic “Inventions”
More Catholic “Inventions”
The “Boettner List”: Fact or Fiction?
Inventions?

pax christi,
phatcatholic


#15

[quote=robertjohn]In reading through a website on church dogma I found the following principle:

“Since Mary’s Assumption into Heaven no grace is conferred on man without her actual intercessory co-operation. (Sent. pia et probabilis.)”

Does this sound correct? It sounds as though no mercy (grace) can be provided without her intercessory prayer.

Thanks for your feedback in advance
[/quote]

here’s another way to look at this, which may be of further help to you. when it says that no grace is conferred without her intercessory co-operation, we should not take this to mean that God lacks the power and authority to give us grace without Mary. instead i like to look at it like this: Mary is always praying for us, that we will be drawn closer to her Son, that He will shower his graces upon us, and that we will respond to this grace. therefore, since she never ceases to intercede for us, no grace is given w/o her intercession.

this would appear to be another valid way to look at this belief, but i am certainly open to correction. i hope it helps.

pax christi,
phatcatholic


#16

[quote=phatcatholic]so what’s your point? besides being off topic, your post doesn’t really prove anything. boettner is fond of a similar tactic, and i wonder if that’s where you got this list. these doctrines weren’t created or invented at those times. instead, something was defined that had always been believed. for more on this, see the following:

The Anti-Catholic Bible
Catholic “Inventions”
More Catholic “Inventions”
The “Boettner List”: Fact or Fiction?
Inventions?

pax christi,
phatcatholic
[/quote]

You don’t like history? I didn’t either until I checked it out. You really should look into it a little more. I know it does shake me. You know we are led to believe that this has always been so, and most of us have always believed that, and I remember when the last two were brought in. Go figure! And we were told then if we didn’t accept this (both times) we were going to be ex-communicated, we were also told that this has always been so.??? If you really look, the documentation is there. That is what bothers me.


#17

[quote=Ruth101]You don’t like history? I didn’t either until I checked it out. You really should look into it a little more. I know it does shake me. You know we are led to believe that this has always been so, and most of us have always believed that, and I remember when the last two were brought in. Go figure! And we were told then if we didn’t accept this (both times) we were going to be ex-communicated, we were also told that this has always been so.??? If you really look, the documentation is there. That is what bothers me.
[/quote]

this is off topic. start a new thread if you want to talk about this list. i refuse to derail this one…


#18

[quote=phatcatholic]this is off topic. start a new thread if you want to talk about this list. i refuse to derail this one…
[/quote]

No I don’t think this is off topic. You are talking about graces so to speak, and I am pointing out why this should not be. These are things that were not part of the apostolic church of Jesus Christ and therefore should not be part of His body now.

Where in all of Scripture does it say that anyone apart from God and the Lord Jesus Christ that there is grace imparted? This has been my struggle and I can’t find one instance of it being from anyone but the LORD God almighty and Jesus Christ who died for us, rose from the dead for us, and ascended into heaven for us. According to the Bible, He is the only one that could do that!

Can you understand where I am coming from?


#19

[quote=Ruth101]No I don’t think this is off topic. You are talking about graces so to speak, and I am pointing out why this should not be. These are things that were not part of the apostolic church of Jesus Christ and therefore should not be part of His body now.

Where in all of Scripture does it say that anyone apart from God and the Lord Jesus Christ that there is grace imparted? This has been my struggle and I can’t find one instance of it being from anyone but the LORD God almighty and Jesus Christ who died for us, rose from the dead for us, and ascended into heaven for us. According to the Bible, He is the only one that could do that!

Can you understand where I am coming from?
[/quote]

well, what you just wrote was on topic, but everything up until then has been musings over a list of dates and doctrines, nothing specifically about Mary’s role in our reception of grace. anyway, i’m glad that you are back on board.

regarding Mary as the “mediatrix of all graces”, this belief is a deduction of straight-forward biblical truths. Jesus is the source of all the grace we receive. through his death and resurrection we are able to be sanctified by grace and to gain eventual entrance into heaven. now, God could have achieved this any way he chose. he could have snapped his fingers and the gates of heaven would have opened for us. but, he willed that the Son should take on human flesh and die on the cross to conquer sin and death.

Mary gave him this flesh, the flesh that our Lord deemed necessary for the Son to give up in order to give us his graces. therefore, she is in this sense the mediator of the graces we receive.

now, a distinction must be made here that is of fundamental importance: her mediation is subordinate in nature. the grace comes from the Son. it finds is source in Him, and he is the active agent who imparts it to us. however, by saying yes to the angel and uniting her will to the Father’s, Mary works with Jesus to empart his grace. remember, neither the Father nor the Son need Mary in order to give us grace. but, by willing that the Son be born of a woman who they knew, w/ their perfect forknowledge would say “yes”, Mary was intentionally made a participant in the giving of grace to all mankind.

note that the Lord working with others to achieve his work in the world is quite biblical:

1 Cor 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
Mark 16:20 And they went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it. Amen.
Rom 8:28 We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.
2 Cor 6:1 Working together with him, then, we entreat you not to accept the grace of God in vain.

we can even work with him to save others:

1 Cor 9:22 I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some
1 Tim 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Mary acts in a similar fashion, by working with God to grant us his grace. Millions of saints work with the Lord to achieve his work every day, not b/c he needs our help, but b/c he has willed that we be involved. Mary’s action is particularly worth noting b/c no one will be able to participate in God’s work the way she did.

i hope this helps

pax christi,
phatcatholic


#20

Dear Ruth,

I think all Christians should know everything possible about their Faith and church history. For that reason I think it is good to bring out the facts so that we all might consider them.

The list is definately incorrect because we know that prayers to martyrs goes back to the earliest days of the church. In fact churches were built over the sites of martyrdom and also over the graves of the martyrs. Intercessory prayer was integral to the church from the beginning. Whomever compiled that listed was using bad information, probably deliberately.

But the idea that devotion to Mary developed over time is not really wrong. No one could know anything definate about Mary until we knew about her son. When that was ironed out we became aware of the more complete role of Mary in salvation history.

The Council of Ephesus was specifically intended to settle the Christological controversy. The church was not speaking with one voice as to the true nature of the qualities of Jesus Christ.

Some people (affirming the impassibility of God) refused to believe that Jesus Christ was truly God as he died on the cross, but merely a man at that point. Some others couldn’t accept that Jesus was fully human at all (we still have people like that, offended by the image of a “laughing Jesus” or the notion that He not only ate with sinners, but also needed their latrines).

Eventually it was settled that Jesus was fully human and fully divine simultaneously, and that He was so from conception. This is why Mary was so important to the Council. Some Fathers wished to declare her Christotokos (Christ bearer) which is technically correct but gave some people weasel room to avoid affirming that she carried God in her womb. The title settled on for her was Theotokos (God bearer) which left no doubt as to the qualities of her child.

So by using some deductive reasoning it was decided that she carried God incarnate, and she must have been very special to be able to do so. This opened the door for all kinds of additional speculation about her.

She has always served as a good role model for the rest of us, and we believe that her prayers on our behalf are helpful.


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