Mary : Co-Redemptrix


#1

On 23 December, 2000the New York times ran a major story that said a movement was attempting to put before John Paul II the concept that Mary was Co-Redemptrix with Jesus as a mediator for salvation.

You can read the 3-part article at:
voxpopuli.org/response_to_7_common_objections_part1.php

My question is how does one explain this concept to H.S. students?
Has John Paul II acted on this matter?
Why was it brought up at this time?

Thanks for any and all answers.:tiphat:


#2

The problems that come up in a “co-redemptrix” discussion start with the two ways we use the term “co-”. They are very different.

Often, in situations where there is need for cooperation, a joint committee is formed. Perhaps it concerns workplace safety, and the committee is made up of union and management representatives. In these cases, it is not uncommon for there to be “co-chairmen” of the committee – one from the union, one from management. Each is a chairman, and each has the same role, position, and authority. That is the first usage.

The second usage is found on the flight deck of an airplane. There is a pilot, who is in command of the aircraft, and a co-pilot, who assists the pilot in the operation of the aircraft. Here, “co-” denotes cooperation, not shared roles and authority. The pilot remains in command, and does not share that role with his cooperator.

Mary is indeed “co-redemptrix” in that sense of cooperation. She is also the supreme example to us in how we should cooperate with her Son. She began that cooperation with her “fiat” when informed that she would conceive Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. Her last words in Holy Scripture exemplify that cooperation, when she told the servants at the wedding feast, “Do whatever he tells you.”

I’m not sure what the folks pressuring His Holiness want. But Mary’s cooperation, and its example to us all, has been a constant teaching of the church, so maybe you could point that out.

Blessings,

Gerry


#3

Mr. Gary Hunter,

Your post concerning the use of the prefix “co” was

simply great , pilot and copilot. Thanks for that analogy.


#4

Mary was Co-Redemptrix with Jesus as a mediator for salvation

Your post concerning the use of the prefix “co” was simply great , pilot and copilot.

What you believe is total blasphemy against the Lord God Almighty.

This is what His Word says:

Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


#5

[quote=redeemed1]What you believe is total blasphemy against the Lord God Almighty.
[/quote]

That’s the same thing the temple priests said to Jesus when Jesus said He was the Son of God and they accused Him of blasphemy because scripture said that God was one.

Didn’t Jesus promise to send His Holy Spirit to guide His church in ALL things? If so, why do you doubt what that Holy Spirit have revealed? It may SEEM like a contridiction in faith just like when Jesus said that He was the Son of God but the Spirit of truth will not guide us wrong.


#6

Dear Exporter,

Along with Gerry’s great explanation, also consider this:

The title “Co-Redemptrix” is given to Mary. But Jesus is NOT thereby regarded as “Co-Redemptor.” Mary’s role completely depends on her Son’s role as sole Redemptor, but His role as Redemptor does NOT depend on her as Co-Redemptrix.

Also consider that because of the empowerment granted to us as Christians, we are all in a sense “co-redemptors,” as are we all co-mediators with the one Mediator. Paul specifically attested that his sufferings make up for what was lacking in Christ’s sufferings for the sake of His body. And our prayers also mediate for others. This is a function and responsibility we possess and obtain in our Baptism, when we are thereby enabled to share in the office of the priesthood of Christ. So the notion of co-redemptors with Jesus is not alien to Scripture at all.

God bless,
Greg


#7

[quote=Gerry Hunter]The problems that come up in a “co-redemptrix” discussion start with the two ways we use the term “co-”. They are very different.

.

The second usage is found on the flight deck of an airplane. There is a pilot, who is in command of the aircraft, and a co-pilot, who assists the pilot in the operation of the aircraft. Here, “co-” denotes cooperation, not shared roles and authority. The pilot remains in command, and does not share that role with his cooperator.

[/quote]

Simply wonderful example. Thanks


#8

[quote=redeemed1]What you believe is total blasphemy against the Lord God Almighty.

This is what His Word says:

Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
[/quote]

Wrong.

The passage from Galatians speaks to the Truth that God is the sole mediator of divine justice. That does not exclude other kinds of mediation. If you pray for the healing of a sick friend and your prayer is answered, you are a mediator. The power of healing comes soley from God no doubt, but you are the instrument God uses. This is perfectly biblical.

Scott


#9

+JMJ

Hey all in case your interested I did a post on this in October here is the link. there are some very interesting points on this subject.

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=15967

Have a blessed Christmas.


#10

Didn’t Jesus promise to send** His Holy Spirit** to guide His church in ALL things? If so, why do you doubt what that Holy Spirit have revealed? It may SEEM like a contridiction in faith just like when Jesus said that He was the Son of **God **but the Spirit of truth will not guide us wrong.


Did you just call God a liar by saying what you just said? Jesus is God manifest in the flesh; Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and you shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. J’shua, Yahveh saves!
Acts 5:1-11 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also knowing it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back part of the price of the land? While it remained, was it not your own? and after it was sold, was it not in your own power? why have you conceived this thing in your heart? you have not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and died: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. And the young men arose, wrapped him up, and carried him out, and buried him. And it was about the space of three hours later, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. And Peter said unto her, Tell me whether you sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said unto her, How is it that you have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them who have buried your husband are at the door, and shall carry you out. Then she fell down immediately at his feet, and died: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband. And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.
Let us not lie to the Holy Spirit. Let us tell the truth in love. The Catholic Church has lied for decades as to what you need to do to be saved and has gotten rich in the process. Do you want to continue believing the lie or press on to a real future in Christ Jesus, and eternal life in Him?


#11

Hey Redeemed1,

I think that you just need to sit back and try to understand where they are coming from before you begin to make such accusations concerning their position. I am certianly not saying that I agree with this Mariology, but, just throwing out Scripture in an uncharitible manner is not the way to persuade anyone of your position. Besides this, I don’t think any of the Scriptures that you have put forth are new to them–I could be wrong, but I am sure that they have read them. Kindly and slowly explain what you are trying to say in a gracious manner and at least there might be some good conversation that helps someone. Otherwise, I don’t think you should be jumping in here.

Just my thoughts and I wish you well.

Michael


#12

[quote=michaelp]Hey Redeemed1,

I think that you just need to sit back and try to understand where they are coming from before you begin to make such accusations concerning their position. I am certianly not saying that I agree with this Mariology, but, just throwing out Scripture in an uncharitible manner is not the way to persuade anyone of your position. Besides this, I don’t think any of the Scriptures that you have put forth are new to them–I could be wrong, but I am sure that they have read them. Kindly and slowly explain what you are trying to say in a gracious manner and at least there might be some good conversation that helps someone. Otherwise, I don’t think you should be jumping in here.

Just my thoughts and I wish you well.

Michael
[/quote]


#13

**“The Woman Who Once Was Mary, Lady of All Nations: Coredemptrix, Mediatrix & Advocate” is from the most condemned apparition in the history of the Church. The phony demand for belief in CoMA as soft doctrine makes the teachings of apologists, theologians and wacky seers like Amsterdam’s Ida Peerdeman the ultimate teaching authority, bypassing Peter and the Apostles. That’s protestantism…

You can’t make a doctrine out of three undefined titles. Doctrine is teaching, not empty labels. There are over three hundred undefined Marian titles. You can’t arbitrarily grab three and call them one dogma because the Church used those names! These titles are as much mystical poetry as theology. And you can’t define them apart from the writings of the Church as CoMA’s supporters have. **

Mary has been written of in papal encyclicals as “cooperating” with Christ’s sacrifice, not effecting it as stated by supporters of Peerdeman. Mary didn’t “offer up” her Son as a priestess in a kind of child sacrifice. It doesn’t take much discernment to see how goofy Peerdeman is. She also called another condemned Marian “seer” the reincarnation of Mary. And Peerdeman’s “Yahweh” was condemning the Jews at the very moment NAZI’s were rounding up their last victims before the Allied liberation. Ugly stuff.

**There has been a disturbing trend to bypass pastoral oversight and go direct to the people as seen in EWTN’s misstep of offering a petition to the Vatican for the adoption of the “Final Dogma” of “seer” Ida Peerdeman. CoMA is promoted by Franciscan University professor Mark Miravalle, who sells Ida Peerdeman’s condemned writings through VOX POPULI (“voice of the people”). This “Final Dogma” was graciously separated from the un-Catholic Catholic seer and considered independently by the Vatican. **

**The Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, dismissed the “Final Dogma” as confusing and divisive, stating there is no chance of adoption or even of further consideration. The millions of petitions and sturm und drang would never have taken place had there been conformity with Peter. **

All the error and confusion would have been bypassed if only the faithful had heeded Pius XII’s warnings regarding Ida Peerdeman, or if apologists and theologians had obeyed multiple Vatican condemnations given in the face of continued rebellion. That would have meant forfeiting the lucrative pilgrimage trade to Amsterdam. Real Catholics turn to pastors empowered and authorized by Christ Himself. When in doubt, call the bluff of blowhards and call your bishop. Like Medjugorje, this Franciscan-affiliated apparition is more about money than Mary.


#14

Thankyou, Michael.Co-Redemptrix is meant cooperating with Gods will to bring forth the one Redeemer,who is Jesus;Henceforth all generations shall call me Blessed,The Almighty has done marvels for me and Holy is His name.She said yes,to God by her free will. By her cooperation she brought forth Jesus.She always points to her Son,and tells us do whatever He tells you. A humble servant of the Lord,who should be a model for us all,God Bless


#15

If Hitler’s mother had known ahead of time what an evil person her child would become, that he would be responsible for the murder of millions of innocent people, and yet willingly consented to his conception and birth and supported him throughout his life, then wouldn’t she also in some way be responsible for the murder of those people killed because of her son?

Mary played a crucial supporting role in the redemption of the world won by her son, Jesus Christ. Knowing beforehand that Jesus would be the Son of God and that he would rule over the house of Jacob forever, Mary consented to his conception. (Luke 1:26-38) Knowing that he would save his people from their sins (assuming that Joseph told her about the angel’s message to him concerning Jesus, Matt 1:18-25), Mary carried Jesus in her womb and gave birth to him, nursed him and otherwise cared for him, encouraged him to perform his first miracle, and stood by him as he was dying on the cross. Since Mary knew beforehand that her son was the Savior and yet she willingly consented to his conception and supported him thorughout his life, Mary is also responsible in some way for the redemption of all the people who are redeemed by her son, Jesus. If Mary is called Co-Redemptix for her role in the redemption of the world, I think it is a well-deserved title.


#16

The Blessed Virgin Mary would have been a bloody heap underneath a pile of stones had Saint Joseph exposed her to Mosaic justice instead of putting her away privately. St. Joseph is a coredeemer in effecting the physical integrity of the Word Incarnate. Now where are we?

We are in the middle of a money-grubbing mobocracy movement seeking to promote the “Final Dogma” of the most condemned seer in Church history, Ida Peerdeman. It does not pass the smell test. Unlike all other Marian dogma, this demand from Ida Peerdeman’s fist-shaking “Mary” is rank and foul because: it does not apply uniquely to Mary, and; does not reflexively illuminate the Person of Jesus Christ.

Catholic lay apologists pretending to explain away this title, one title among over three hundred, while ignoring the toxic context of disobedience, should forego any more mumbling in their beards. The Vatican has spoken. Ida Peerdeman’s “Final Dogma” of Coredemptrix, Mediatrix & Advocate is D.O.A. Persisting in this defense is, to put it mildly, less than faithful to John Paul II’s charge for the laity to promote Church teaching. If you want to be a self-shepherding sheep, have the guts to leave and become a protestant.

The horror of “coredemptrix” has swept through the Vatican on millions of petitions by VOX POPULI, the voice of the mob dictating dogma as led by Mark Miravalle. Mass misunderstanding has led to the Vatican’s virtual abandonment Vatican of this rarely-used term. Blessed Mary cooperated with Christ’s redemption. All Christians cooperate with Christ’s redemption. Those who “hear and obey” will be accounted as mother and brother to Christ as He Himself said.

Franciscan University professor Mark Miravalle has, against repeated Church condemnations, published the condemned writings of a condemned seer, Ida Peerdemanm, and promoted a condemned “Marian” apparition, “The Lady of All Nations Who Once Was Mary: Coredemptrix, Mediatrix & Advocate.” This is pure AmChurch. Any belaboring of “coredeemer” will earn the reward of those who feign religiosity but who have alienated themselves with rebellion. As Jesus said, to reject Christ’s servants is to reject Christ and the Father.

“Depart from Me, I never knew you.”


#17

[quote=nordskoven]The Blessed Virgin Mary would have been a bloody heap underneath a pile of stones had Saint Joseph exposed her to Mosaic justice instead of putting her away privately. St. Joseph is a coredeemer in effecting the physical integrity of the Word Incarnate.
[/quote]

Yes, I agree. Joseph also played a crucial supporting role in the redemption of the world won by Jesus Christ and deserves to be called a co-redeemer. However, I would stop at Mary and Joseph and not apply the title to anyone else.


#18

I don’t think so.


closed #19

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