Mary, Mother of the Trinity?


#1

I saw a debate online between Fr. Pacwa and Dr. Walter Martin.

Dr. Martin proposed an interesting syllogism, and I don’t think Fr. Pacwa addressed it adequately. (Of course, Fr. Pacwa’s response may have been edited, as the debate was sponsored by a non-Catholic organization.)

Dr. Martin said: If Catholics say "Jesus is God; Mary is the mother of Jesus. Therefore Mary is the mother of God"
then it also follows that we must say “God is Trinity; Mary is the mother of God, therefore, Mary is the mother of the Trinity.”

Of course, it is heretical to say Our Lady is the mother of the Trinity…yet it seems Dr. Martin’s logic is valid.

How do Catholics refute Dr.Martin’s argument?


#2

The doctor’s understanding of Trinity is flawed, and that leads to his dilemma about Mary. He is not respecting the 3 persons of the Trinity. She is daughter of the Father, mother of the Son, and spouse of the Holy Spirit.


#3

Mary is the mother of God **incarnate **only. I always cringe over the words, “Mother of God” as it’s deceptive, and a stumbling block to non-Catholic Christians.
She is the mother of Jesus who is man and God.
Jesus got his genetic human material from her, not His God-hood.
She is not the mother of the Trinity.
She is created by God.


#4

Well said Trishie


#5

I probably forgot about this before he spoke.


#6

Why is it heretical? If God the Father and God the Holy Spirit and God the Son are equally God, then if you’re going to claim that Mary is God’s mother, how can she not be the mother of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit?

Are you suggesting that Jesus is a different God than God the Father and God the Holy Spirit?


#7

So then Jesus is the son of the Holy Spirit, the grandson of God the Father, and nephew of Mary?

And you have the nerve to accuse Walter Martin of not understanding the Trinity???


#8

PRmerger,

You can spot the error by creating another syllogism: Jesus is God, God is Trinity, therefore Jesus is Trinity. Obviously Dr. Martin wouldn’t hold to that.

Trishie, I fail to see it as a stumbling block to non-Catholic Christians. “Mother of God” was in use by the 3rd century, and was proclaimed solemnly in 431. It is a central part of all Christianity and Christian heritage.

VC


#9

Jesus is *one *Person with *two *natures, one divine and one human. Mary is the mother of *Jesus. *Jesus as Person is distinct from the Father and the Son, therefore Mary is the mother only of Jesus not the entire Trinity


#10

Mary is the mother of Christ’s human nature, and she is the mother of Christ as a Person, who is God and man. However, the Trinity chose that only the Second Person would be incarnate. Even though the Divine Nature is united to a human nature, this occurs, by the will of all Three Persons, only in the Second Person. The other two Persons chose not to be Incarnate, even though the Divine Nature is united to a human nature in the Second Person.

Sacred Tradition has never called Mary the mother of the Father, nor the mother of the Spirit. So the expression ‘mother of the Trinity’ is not correct.


#11

Well, in a word, yes.

Or more correctly, not that Jesus is A different God than God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, but that Jesus is distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit.

To quote from Veritas41: Jesus as Person is distinct from the Father and the Son.


#12

Well, I guess we can add polygamy to the list of heretical Catholic teachings.


#13

Did you mean “polytheism”? Jesus is a distinct Person of the Trinity, but one and the same God as the Father and the Son. That isn’t polytheism


#14

Either you’re just playing Devil’s Advocate or you are - as Puzzleannie so eloquently put it - not respecting the 3 persons of the Trinity.

The fact is that Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. To deny that she is the mother of God is to disagree with this fact, which would be heresy on your part.


#15

Careful. This is vaguely Nestorian. She was the mother of God incarnate, but she was, indeed, the mother of both His humanity and His divinity, by virtue of the hypostatic union.


#16

Oh, I see. So then, when you said that He is a different God, you really meant “no, He isn’t a different God”.

Thanks for clearing that up.

If that’s the case, then we’re back to the Catholic heresy that mary is the mother of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, too.


#17

If she was the mother of His divinity, then that means that He was not always divine.


#18

Was Jesus God before Mary gave birth to Him?

Is Mary the mother of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit?


#19

I meant exactly what I said in Post #11.

Again, I said: Jesus is not A different God than God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, but that Jesus is distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit.


#20

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.