Mary Never Truly Died


#82

@dougp was wondering why are you asking me this Q anyways here is it

Sure, Mother Mary is not only the mother of believers, but the whole mankind, She is there in the whole Bible right from Genesis till the book of Revelations. Yes, we should look to the whole picture.

In this verse it is very clear Galatians 4:26 But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free= (sinless MOTHER MARY) and she is our mother ( MARY).Here Jesus give His Own Mother ,as our Mother, so also to the Church as well through His beloved Apostle St John in turn to all Humans.
Revelation 12:1-2 A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman (Mother Mary) clothed with the sun (Glory Wisdom 7:26 For she (Mother Mary) is a reflection of eternal light=Jesus John 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life.”, a spotless mirror of the working of God, and an image of his goodness.), with the moon under her feet (Power given to Her in the Church By Jesus on the Cross the last Treasure and the most important before his death only then he could finishes the will of God ), and on her head a crown of twelve stars (12 Apostles and the 12 Tribes of Israel) (Queen of Heaven also Co -redeemer). 2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pangs, in the agony of giving birth.

Did the Heavenly Father choose Mother Mary after the fall of man ? yes He did! In Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee(satan) and the woman(Mary), and thy seed wicked sinners and those who dishonor Her against God’s Will and her seed:(Jesus, Christians and those who honor and respect Her for what She is, the Mother of God ) she shall crush(what a humiliation for satan who is pride to be defeated and crushed by women, God loves it ) thy(satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Read and meditate? understand?

John 19:26 When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman,(addressing as the Women of Genesis 3:15 the New Eve our Mother Mary) behold, your son!” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!”( its a commandment Exodus 20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long(Eternity ) in the land (Heaven)which the Lord your God gives you).And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home(His heart, the Church, for all human race for Eternity).Hebrews 11:16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city(Mother Mary emphasized here Revelation 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem (Mother Mary), coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband;

CCC [966] was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things,** …


#83

Ok ,but why are you asking me about Mary


#84

Let’s cut to the chase. The OP is Mary and how she’s seen by you and others. Can you tell me please, who is the Queen of heaven?
From the Pope:
From Magisterium:
From 2000 years of oral tradition:
From scripture:


#85

Whrw!
Francis, you have quite a post there.
First, let me give you my answers.
Pope: Mary*
Oral/Magisterium: Mary*
Scripture: A false goddess worshiped by apostate Jews, just before Yahweh dropped the hammer on 'em. See Jeremiah 7:18, 44:17-19,25, which have the phrase literally. No need for “interpretation”.

That was quick. Before we continue, do you disagree with any of them?

  • You didn’t need citations; I trust you. :slight_smile:

#86

am aware of that ,as Jn17:17 i believe the Word of God is quite clear about Mary as the Queen of the Angles, Saints and the whole heavenly Host .God Bless
i only request you to keep an open mind and heart and the spirit of humility God willing !


#87

I protest- I’m not a Protestant!

C.E. and B.C.E. are favored by scientific writers especially because “before Christ” has nothing to do with e.g. the Mound Builders of Ohio. I learned it decades ago in the Scientific American. One user of it was a secular Jewish writer who wrote an excellent piece on the present-day Samaritans.

Read about the Queen of Heaven in Jeremiah, and see if she’s ‘harmless’. In the meantime, continue to use that one to ‘teach’ others about Mary. I can’t tell you not to, I can only point out what God’s [written] word says. Then you decide.

The Bible’s store of information about Mary is much less than Magisterium’s. It’s also plainer, clearer, of more practical use to us, and doesn’t denigrate her at all. A Marian Catholic might think Paul does though, since he refers to her only once, as “a woman”. Gal 4:4.


#88

So you’re Catholic?

Interesting on the C.E. I’ve never heard a Christian of any denomination (or non-denomination) use such a term - especially in a non-secular setting.


#89

Pope: Mary
Magisterium: Mary (CCC 966)
Tradition: Mary
Scripture: Depends.

If we’re talking about the true Queen of Heaven, then it would be Mary. Here is a good article explaining the case for that, though Wikipedia offers a good summary if the former is too long. It’s not completely explicit, but a case can be made Scripturally due to her unique relationship to Jesus, the King.

However, there is of course another usage in Scripture. Just as Israel frequently worshipped false gods, they also worshipped a false queen of heaven (Jer. 7:18). We’re not entirely sure which goddess was being referenced here, but the main theory I’ve heard is that it was Asherah/Asterus (name changes). With that said, I’d caution against using this to criticize the Christian use of the title. It is very obviously not referencing Mary, who had yet to be created at that time.


#90

I looked at Charpentiers music settings in honor of the Assumotion and it did have some Scripture verses and it was a pleasant surprise.


#91

I still say BC and AD but if I refer to CE and BCE I use Christian Era and Before Christian Era.


#92

). If Enoch and Elijah who were born sinners and led a life of penance, but yet was assumed into Heaven, Genesis 5: 24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him. 2 Kings 2:11 How much more the Mother of God born without the original sin and lived a holy life, will she not be in the heaven praying for all of us Luke 1:37 For nothing will be impossible with God.”. Luke 1:45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her by the Lord.”

Mother Mary wanted to imitate Jesus in everything including death ,though she is sinless .she accepted death as the will of God so as to be united with her son Jesus in every thing ,so we say she sleepy and woke up in Heaven in the presence of the heavenly court and the angles and saints.

. . . also in her Assumption

[966] "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."508 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:

In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.509

. . . she is our Mother in the order of grace

*[967] By her complete adherence to the Father’s will, to his Son’s redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity. Thus she is a “preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church”; indeed, she is the “exemplary realization” ( typus )510 of the Church.

[968] Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."511

[969] "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512


#93

Well The attribution of Jesus’ work to Beelzebub was a serious accusation that misunderstood the person and work of the Messiah.so now Non catholic accuse the Mother of God Mary as goddess Artemis

2 Kings 1:2 Ahaziah had fallen through the lattice in his upper chamber in Samaria, and lay injured; so he sent messengers, telling them, “Go, inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron, whether I shall recover from this injury.”

Matthew 10:25 25 it is enough for the disciple to be like the teacher, and the slave like the master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they malign those of his household! (Jesus and Mary )When some Pharisees called Jesus as Beelzebub prince of demons how much more will Non Catholic call Mary goddess of Artemis )

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons, that this fellow casts out the demons.”

am aware of that ,as Jn17:17 i believe the Word of God is quite clear about Mary as the Queen of the Angles, Saints and the whole heavenly Host .God Bless
i only request you to keep an open mind and heart and the spirit of humility God willing !

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘Servants are not greater than their master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also. How much more they will persecuted the (Jesus)Master’s Mother Mary

Revelation 12:14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle=(ST John)John 19:26 that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. 15 The serpent poured water=( false doctrines as some do ) like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with the flood. 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth=(Christians all those who honor Her and respect Her) opened its mouth and swallowed the river which the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was angry with the woman(Mother Mary ), and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring= (Christians and other who honor Mother Mary , on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.


#94

The Wikipedia article says the Eastern Churches teaches that Mary died. I am by no means an expert on the teaching of the Eastern Churches, but I thought the Dormition was taught to be something different than death.

We can choose what we believe as to the matter of Mary’s death. I personally believe she did not die, but she did have an end to her natural life on earth and at that point was taken to heaven. This would be how we all would have been if we had not fallen. Since Mary did not have concupiscence, which is one effect of original sin, I do not think she died, which is also an effect of original sin. But I could be wrong.


#95

Well at the risk of opening up a can of worms, the Eastern Churches have a different understanding of Original Sin so make of that what you will I guess …the more ancient tradition is that she did die. I’m not Roman Catholic anyway so the point is moot for me…

(Just a friendly FYI, but I’m not interested in debating Original/Ancestral Sin or the Immaculate Conception :slight_smile: )


#96

I understand their thoughts on original sin are different than ours. My point about their belief in Mary’s death was meant to be different than the other point I made.
Thanks for the clarification. I was certainly not wanting to open up that debate either, just giving my reasoning for why I think she did not die.


#97

As I understand it, Mary fell asleep (the Dormition) and her body was taken up into heaven (the Assumption). I am inclined to think that while Catholics don’t think that she died, the EOs don’t believe this.


#98

Sorry, just wanting to understand your post. When you say “As I understand”, is that what you are saying is the Eastern Orthodox belief? Which is what I have always thought about EO belief. When you say the “EOs don’t believe this”, are your referring to the fact that she did not die?


#99

I see now after reading everyone’s reply that she was assumed into heaven and that any that says the Bible says she died just like everyone has to be wrong because the Bible never mentioned how she entered heaven.


#100

Francis. Relax, take a deep breath. No one is suggesting that Mary is being referenced by Jeremiah. That cannot be, if only because she was not yet born in Jeremiah’s day. He was complaining about a Middle Eastern goddess being worshiped by apostate Jews. It was they who called her Queen of Heaven.

The most sensible answer I got was from zmysticat. Please see my reply to him/her when I post it.


#101

God used to be called Baal in Hosea (Osee) so it is possible for a false god to bear similitarities to something that is not bad.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.