Mary on the cross?!?


#1

What does that picture mean?!?

Thank you.


#2

I believe this is St. Liberata…

"Wilgefortis
A fabulous female saint known also as UNCUMBER, KUMMERNIS, KOMINA, COMERA, CUMERANA, HULFE, ONTCOMMENE, ONTCOMMER, DIGNEFORTIS, EUTROPIA, REGINFLEDIS, LIVRADE, LIBERATA, etc.

The legend makes her a Christian daughter of a pagan King of Portugal. In order to keep her vow of chastity, she prayed God to disfigure her body, that she might evade the command of her father to marry a pagan prince. God caused a beard to grow on her chin, whereupon her father had her crucified. Connected with this legend is the story of a destitute fiddler to whom, when he played before her image (or before her crucified body), she gave one of her golden boots. Being condemned to death for the theft of the boot, he was granted his request to play before her a second time, and, in presence of all, she kicked off her other boot, thus establishing his innocence.

The legend is not a Christian adaptation of the Hermaphroditus of Greek mythology or of other androgynous myths of pagan antiquity, as it cannot be traced back further than the fifteenth century. It rather originated from a misinterpretation of the famous “Volto Santo” of Lucca, a representation of the crucified Saviour, clothed in a long tunic, His eyes wide open, His long hair falling over His shoulders, and His head covered with a crown. This crucifix, popularly believed to be the work of Nicodemus, is preserved in the Basilica of Lucca and highly venerated by the people. In the early Middle Ages it was common to represent Christ on the cross clothed in a long tunic, and wearing a royal crown; but since the eleventh century this practice has been discontinued. Thus it happened that copies of the “Volto Santo” of Lucca, spread by pilgrims and merchants in various parts of Europe, were no longer recognized as representations of the crucified Saviour, but came to be looked upon as pictures of a woman who had suffered martyrdom.

The name Wilgefortis is usually derived from Virgo fortis, but recently Schnürer has shown that Wilgefortis is probably a corruption of Hilge Vartz (Vartz, Fratz, face), “Holy Face”. This would corroborate the opinion that the legend originated in the “Volto Santo”. The old English name Uncumber, as also the German Oncommer and their equivalents in other languages, rose from the popular belief that every one who invokes the saint in the hour of death will die ohne Kummer, without anxiety. When the cult of St. Wilgefortis began to spread in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, her name found its way into various breviaries and martyrologies. Thus a breviary, printed at Paris for the Diocese of Salisbury in 1533, has a beautiful metric antiphon and prayer in her honour. Her feast is celebrated on 20 July. She is usually represented nailed to a cross: as a girl of ten or twelve years, frequently with a beard, or as throwing her golden boot to a musician playing before her, sometimes also with one foot bare. "

Though, I could be wrong

newadvent.org/cathen/15622a.htm


#3

Just another sign that we are coming into the last days.The bible tells us in the last days many will come preaching a new Gospell Jesus has done it ALL. It is FINISHED .BEWARE!!! :eek: God Bless.


#4

Looks like fodder for anti-catholic distortions.


#5

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Just another sign that we are coming into the last days.The bible tells us in the last days many will come preaching a new Gospell Jesus has done it ALL. It is FINISHED .BEWARE!!! :eek: God Bless.
[/quote]

Translation: Do not ever recognize or honor anyone who loved Jesus Christ enough to give their life rather than disobey Him.

Perhaps someday the anti-Christ will make this a formal command.

Peace in Christ…Salmon


#6

[quote=MichaelTDoyle]Looks like fodder for anti-catholic distortions.
[/quote]

HI Michael, What da mean pop?[Fooder]? :confused:


#7

There was an article about something like this in either Mr. Keating’s e-letter or in “This Rock.” All I remember is the article was talking about a movie that was made by a fundamentalist group with a priest and the group manipulated the editing and at the end they showed a picture of one of the female saints that was crucified…can’t remember if the Saint in the article was Liberata or what…maybe someone has a better memory than I.


#8

[quote=Salmon]Translation: Do not ever recognize or honor anyone who loved Jesus Christ enough to give their life rather than disobey Him.

Perhaps someday the anti-Christ will make this a formal command.

Peace in Christ…Salmon
[/quote]

Hi Salmon, And this is the way to honor Mary,by taking the place of Jesus Christ? I dont think so my friend!! Honor,YES, replace ,NO, :eek: God Bless


#9

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Hi Salmon, And this is the way to honor Mary,by taking the place of Jesus Christ? I dont think so my friend!! Honor,YES, replace ,NO, :eek: God Bless
[/quote]

Nobody here puts Mary in the place of Christ Spoken!:tsktsk: You know that,too.Come back home:nope: You are trying to write something sinister in there to justify leaving Holy Mother Church,it doesn’t work.God Bless


#10

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Hi Salmon, And this is the way to honor Mary,by taking the place of Jesus Christ? I dont think so my friend!! Honor,YES, replace ,NO, :eek: God Bless
[/quote]

Why do you think that is a portrayal of Christ’s mother?

This has absolutely nothing to do with what the Catholic Church teaches.

Not that it makes any difference.

Peace in Christ…Salmon


#11

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Hi Salmon, And this is the way to honor Mary,by taking the place of Jesus Christ? I dont think so my friend!! Honor,YES, replace ,NO, :eek: God Bless
[/quote]

Hello Spoken - Before this gets out of hand, please note that in the above post it was explained that the woman depicted is not Mary, but a woman who was crucified for her faith in Jesus Christ.

Anyone who claims that Mary or any saint has ever done anything that even approaches what Jesus did on the cross is teaching heresy. The Catholic Church would certainly consider it heresy. It is also heresy to raise Mary to the level of Jesus. Although the Church teaches that Mary was preserved from personal sin, the Church is also clear that Mary was still only a human being with a human soul and no divine nature. Her being preserved from sin was due entirely to grace because of her unique role as mother of the Savior, not due to her own efforts.

Some Catholics hold Mary up in an inappropriate manner, and they are simply wrong. Just like some Christians abuse and misapply many other Christian doctrines. The ever-popular “prosperity gospel” comes to mind as an example. My pastor is fond of saying, “Don’t judge the Catholic faith based on the poor practice of it by some Catholics.”

Is it appropriate to look at the example of those who have given their lives for Jesus as a good example to follow - certainly. Catholics aren’t the only one’s who follow the good example of those faithful who have gone before us.


#12

[quote=Salmon]Why do you think that is a portrayal of Christ’s mother?

This has absolutely nothing to do with what the Catholic Church teaches.

Not that it makes any difference.

Peace in Christ…Salmon
[/quote]

Read the article:
enquirer.com/editions/1999/09/01/statue_522x500.jpg

Though there is a certain group with in the Church who is trying to elevate Mary to be the 4th in the tri-head… I honor Mary, but his is sad.


#13

[quote=dhgray]Read the article:
enquirer.com/editions/1999/09/01/statue_522x500.jpg

Though there is a certain group with in the Church who is trying to elevate Mary to be the 4th in the tri-head… I honor Mary, but his is sad.
[/quote]

The article does not show on the link,only the picture,and if you read UnGodly rage about the infiltration of the feminist movement that are doing things like this and staying in the Church in order to destroy it,these would not surprise anyone.The bottom line is heresy is heresy:mad: You can not judge the Church and her teaching based on infiltraters who are actively trying to destroy it.God Bless


#14

It’s not Mary, it’s St. Wilgefortis.

from nmsu.edu/~artgal/retabloweb/col-saints.html:

Saint Wilgefortis, Virgin and Martyr
Feast day: July 20

Patroness of laundresses and invoked during moments of distress and headaches.

Saint Wilgefortis is the Latin word for “Strong Virgin.” Her name is also associated with deliverance and liberation. She is said to have been the daughter of a pagan king from a Portuguese territory. Her father ordered her to marry but she had made a vow of virginity and prayed to God to liberate her from this destiny. Her prayers were answered and a thick beard grew upon her face, making her undesirable. Her angry father accused her of witchcraft and had her crucified. Attributes include her as a young beautiful woman, with or without beard, wearing a long dress and a cape with her arms stretched on a cross, crucified with nails or tied to the cross or even without the cross with her arms stretched in a cross-shape. She usually wears a long tunic and has a crown of roses on her head. In most representations she is beardless.


#15

[quote=Lisa4Catholics]Nobody here puts Mary in the place of Christ Spoken!:tsktsk: You know that,too.Come back home:nope: You are trying to write something sinister in there to justify leaving Holy Mother Church,it doesn’t work.God Bless
[/quote]

======================================================Hi Lisa, My point is no one should be portrayed on the the cross of Christ except Christ alone. I,ve seen different images of Mary on the cross and it makes my spirit uncomfortable for I know its not the truth.I dont like false impressions. :frowning: God Bless


#16

Spokenword,

You do realize crucifixion was the norm. meathod of death for Non-Roman citizens?


#17

[quote=SPOKENWORD]======================================================Hi Lisa, My point is no one should be portrayed on the the cross of Christ except Christ alone. I,ve seen different images of Mary on the cross and it makes my spirit uncomfortable for I know its not the truth.I dont like false impressions. :frowning: God Bless
[/quote]

What false impression? If the saint was actually crucified, wouldn’t that be a correct impression? Just because someone was crucified, doesn’t make them Christ. If that were true, we would have a lot of Christs thanks to the Roman Empire.

Are you saying that the ignorant may think the Saint died for our sins? This can be cleared up quickly when they ask “Why is St. Wilgefortis on a cross?”.

God Bless,

Robert.

PS I thought Protestants don’t even want Jesus shown on the cross?


#18

[quote=SPOKENWORD]======================================================Hi Lisa, My point is no one should be portrayed on the the cross of Christ except Christ alone. I,ve seen different images of Mary on the cross and it makes my spirit uncomfortable for I know its not the truth.I dont like false impressions. :frowning: God Bless
[/quote]


#19

[quote=Lisa4Catholics]The article does not show on the link,only the picture,and if you read UnGodly rage about the infiltration of the feminist movement that are doing things like this and staying in the Church in order to destroy it,these would not surprise anyone.The bottom line is heresy is heresy:mad: You can not judge the Church and her teaching based on infiltraters who are actively trying to destroy it.God Bless
[/quote]

SOrrry, here it is:
enquirer.com/editions/1999/09/01/loc_thousands_gather_for.html


#20

[quote=rlg94086]What false impression? If the saint was actually crucified, wouldn’t that be a correct impression? Just because someone was crucified, doesn’t make them Christ. If that were true, we would have a lot of Christs thanks to the Roman Empire.

Are you saying that the ignorant may think the Saint died for our sins? This can be cleared up quickly when they ask “Why is St. Wilgefortis on a cross?”.

God Bless,

Robert.

PS I thought Protestants don’t even want Jesus shown on the cross?
[/quote]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hi Rig,Okay I see the point if someone was crucified it would be a correct image. I was thinking along the lines that only Jesus paid the price by dying for us on the cross.Then why have there been images of Mary on the cross without her being crucified? :confused: God Bless


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