Mary Research

You should be more careful how you word things. I understand that when you say ‘belief in this is not required’, you are talking about Lourdes, but some may think you mean the Immaculate Conception and it would not be true that we are not required to believe in the Immaculate Conception to be Catholic.

An off the wall thought.

I wonder how many have considered the significance of Mary not using this title for herself until it was declared by the Church.

Another point here, this is a greeting from Gabriel to Mary. Angels are messengers from God. They don’t speak on their own. Therefore, Gabriel shows by this greeting how God sees Mary for who she is. Full of Grace. And this state of grace is before Mary said yes to become the mother of God.

A few questions for protestants,
[LIST]
*]how is it that this young girl is full of grace?
*]how did that happen?
*]And when did it happen?
[/LIST]

I just wanted to thank you for this response because I couldn’t reconcile this on my own, although I knew there was an answer, I did not have it! Thanks!:thumbsup:

This link has some ECF teachings about Mary, it should give you a start…scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html

I would also recommend a book…Scott Hahn’s Hail Holy Queen:

amazon.com/Hail-Holy-Queen-Scott-Hahn/dp/0385501684

n Hail, Holy Queen, he employs the same accessible, entertaining style to demonstrate Mary’s essential role in Christianity’s redemptive message.

Most Christians know that the life of Jesus is foreshadowed throughout the Old Testament. Through a close examination of the Bible, as well as the work of both Catholic and Protestant scholars and clergy, Hahn brings to light the small but significant details showing that just as Jesus is the “New Adam,” so Mary is the “New Eve.” He unveils the Marian mystery at the heart of the Book of Revelation and reveals how it is foretold in the very first pages of the Book of Genesis and in the story of King David’s monarchy, which speaks of a privileged place for the mother of the king.

Building on these scriptural and historical foundations, Hahn presents a new look at the Marian doctrines: Her Immaculate Conception, Perpetual Virginity, Assumption, and Coronation. As he guides modern-day readers through passages filled with mysteries and poetry, Hahn helps them rediscover the ancient art and science of reading the Scriptures and gain a more profound understanding of their truthfulness and relevance to faith and the practice of religion in the contemporary world.

Thanks for the titles!

Thanks for the clarification. I can see how that might be misconstrued. Thanks for clearing it up.

Handmaid is the term used by Mary before she became the Kings mother. Luke 1:38

The mother to be of the King is preserved by God from all stain of sin from her conception. She didn’t have to be cleaned up. She was made spotless from her beginning.

Mary is the mother of God. Mary is queen mother. The Gebriah. agapebiblestudy.com/documents/mary%20the%20queen%20mother%20of%20the%20new%20davidic%20kingdom.htm

[/FONT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA

If Mary’s mother was sinful, Mary would have inherited her mother’s sin. Simply logic… right?

No

This only takes 11 minutes. [/FONT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA

A brilliant video which brings together all of the best scriptural arguments for Mary brought forward by Catholics. Thank you for that, very helpful! :slight_smile:

I thought you’d like that. :tiphat:

You’ve probably heard the statement before. The Catholic Church is like a lion. You don’t have to defend the lion, you just have to let it loose. :cool:

Except Mary specifically was saved from the
moment of her existence by the future merit
of Jesus for her role in the salvation of many.

Also, we conclude that Mary was immaculately conceived
as well, not that her mother was a virgin, but nevertheless
Mary was not conceived the usual way.

I was using an anology to help those who don’t quite understand. Is it perfect? no.
But still I think it gets the point across.

I was uncomfortable with the description, she had to be cleaned up. From her conception, God created her soul sinless. And I wanted to make the point of who she IS… mother of God , queen mother , The Gebriah

I think what gets lost here is that God creates the soul.

Yes, God could have made sure that Jesus was conceived immaculately instead of Mary. It appears, however, that this is not what He wanted to do. :slight_smile:

Jesus was sinless; I think there were some advantages for him to grow up as a child in a family wherein his mother understood what it was like to be without sin, also. Can you imagine how tough it would have been to be three or eight or twelve years old facing moral dilemmas every day because your own mother was leading you into temptation? Should he obey or disobey his mom if what she is saying or doing is sinful? Tough choices for anyone let alone a small child. God protected Jesus from that.

Moreover, Mary had consecrated her life to God and pursued God with her whole heart. What a wonderful example for Jesus, yes?

Finally, Jesus is fully man, but he is also God…it’s tough for you and me to relate to that on a personal level. Mary, however, was just like us except without sin…in other words, she is what you and I were SUPPOSED TO BE if Adam and Eve had not fallen. We still struggle to understand her sinlessness, but the leap is not so large.

So, what you have proposed was possible, but there seems to be a lot more to it than a mere question of logistics.

I agree, but doesn’t my point sort of invalidate your earlier logic that Mary had to be sinless in order for Christ to be sinless? I mean, why couldn’t Jesus have simply been made immaculate upon His own conception, why did He require His mother to be so?

I think that’s a question a lot of Protestants have.

Post #34.

After considering the answer for a few days here is a question I’ve been mulling over. It is meant as a “I don’t know and am trying to understand” frame of mind so please take it that way.

From what I see Marion Doctrine relies on the interpretation of the word “grace” from the Greek into English and then a lot of the early Fathers / Writers said “we all honor her”. I’m not saying she doesn’t deserve honor but I am not understanding the degree and fervency of it.

Here’s the juxtaposition. Jesus and those around him say many times “I am God / he is God”. Yet I hear the words “Co-Mediatrix” and “Co-Redemptorix” ascribed to Mary and I think “ok, we have 4500 years of history and theology speaking about Christ and the redemptive works he’s done, so if everyone thinks Mary is (almost) equal to him, there must be a lot of evidence I’ve missed”, and I’m looking for it. There must be more than interpretation of one word.

It’s not that I am anti-Mary I’m not. I think a lot of Protestants don’t experience their faith as fully as they can due to rejection of her simply because “she’s Catholic”. At the same time I’m just looking for deeper research than interpretation of a word and building around it to create what I see practiced.

I’d love to hear further clarification if you have something to add.

Thanks.

We derive the doctrine from tradition not scripture necessarily. We are the only church that doesn’t read the bible, say what do I think that means, then form a church around it. The scripture (new testament) come from tradition, this dogma also comes from tradition. We point out the verse because it expresses the tradition.

Several things here.

Its “co-redemptrix” and " Mediatrix" not co-Mediatrix.

“Co” does not mean equal to, it means sharer with.

We are all co-redemeers with christ as Paul expresses :

“Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.” col 1:24

Paul is expressing that he is doing the redemptive work that Christ isn’t. Namely spreading the word. Now spreading the word is useless without Christ’s suffering and rising from the dead which is what redeems us. But Paul shares in that redemption when he spreads the word. As a result of his spreading the word souls are saved. That makes him a co-redeemer with christ. Not in the same way as christ since if Paul didn’t do it someone else would. The same can not be said about christ. Only christ’s redeeming act realy saves.

When we say that Mary is the Co- redeemer it is in that sense.
She gave birth to the savior and as a result she suffered when he died. That act of Mary’s, which she did of her own free will, brought salvation to the world. It didn’t save the world, rather it brought the one who did save the world. That means she shares more profoundly then any other human being in the salvation of mankind.

Since Mary is the Medium God used to bring salvation (or grace) into the world that makes her the Mediatrix of all graces.
We Catholics believe that Mary is in heaven praying for us. This also means that there is nothing that comes from God that she has not prayed on. Not that it is required to go through her, and she is certainly not the source. It just happens that she is so in tune with her son.

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