Mary, Sola Scriptura, and the Eucharist--in one hour!


#1

Although I am only an amateur apologist (if that), I am scheduled to give my first talk about apologetics to a group of high school girls. They they want me to cover Sola Scriptura, the Eucharist, and Mary in about an hour. That’s a lot for an hour, so I would really appreciate any advice on what to put in (and even more on what to leave out).

So, if you only had 15 minutes for each topic (leaving time for intro and conclusion), what would you find most important to discuss? Keep in mind that the audience is high school girls who probably haven’t had a lot of exposure to apologetics, even though they’re involved with their faith.


#2

I would say stick to the scripture alone subject the most. Once its realized that this is an unbiblical and not a historical view of christianity, other apologetics fall in place.

at least this was the most important issue to me in my conversion.

and for mary and the eucharist, look at scott hahn’s books hail, holy queen and the lambs supper. these two books can be quoted and quoted,…soooooo good.

.


#3

just wanted to say we’re praying for your talk, Grace and Glory!


#4

Wow, you like a challenge, eh?

Sola Scriptura…easy. Explain to them what it is, then offer them a $100 Old Navy gift card for the first girl that can find where in scripture it says that the bible is the one and only source.

Eucharist…I would talk about sacraments in general being a physical sign of an invisible reality. Quote the scripture that supports it. Describe to them the veil between Heaven and Earth parting as an angel takes the offering to the alter of God to be transformed and returned as the body, blood, soul, and divinity. Activate their imagination.

Mary…remind them that she was about their age when she became the mother of our Lord. Talk about what it means to be full of grace.

I know that’s short on detail, but those are some highlights I would hit.


#5

If I had to hit the high points of each in such a short time, I would tackle it thusly, fleshing it out with Scripture and examples as appropriate:

SOLA SCRIPTURA
The teaching is found nowhere in scripture. If something is so key to being a Christian, it should be very explicitly taught.

The very concept was virtually unheard of for the first 1500 years of the Church’s existence. It was not even possible for the majority of Christians to even dream of it before the invention of the printing press. Very poor planning on our Lord’s part!

It has proven itself impractible, since we have 30,000 different competing Protestant denominations who all claim to follow the Bible.

MARY
Point out that all the Church’s dogmas and doctrines about Mary say more about Jesus than they do about her. For example, her title of Mother of God safeguards the fact that Jesus is fully God and fully man.

When Catholic’s are accused of elevating Mary above Christ, they are presuming to read people’s hearts and minds. We do not worship Mary, but we give her honor because God has honored her.

EUCHARIST
The Scriptures attest to it, and the Early Church, and virtually all Christians until the Reformation believed in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Walk them through the Scriptural accounts of John 6, the last supper, and the Road to Emmaus stories.

I’d finish up by recommending follow-up resources. For high schoolers, the Beginning Apologetics books would be very appropriate. I’m sure you can think of more.

Good luck. Make sure you prepare with study and prayer, and let us know when the date draws near so we can pray for you too.


#6

I would suggest www.catholicscripture.com and Hail Holy Queen by Scott Hahn. Take a look at this stuff, it’s great. You can use this for your talk (granted you will have to cut some of the stuff out).

I will pray for you.


#7

Wow, I don’t see how you can do anything of any substance in an hour are those topics. I guess I would concentrate on exciting their curiousity. One of the best apologetics talks for teens that I saw started with a challenge. The presenter came in and said that he was Catholic, but he realized that he was wrong–he was converting. Then he said that it was obvious that Catholics worship Mary. The kids were stunned, then they started going at him. The audience was a group of homeschool kids who had probably had some apologetics, so it might not be as effective with other teens without the exposure. But, I really like the approach. But, make sure no one leaves the room before you correct yourself!!


#8

[quote=Grace and Glory]Although I am only an amateur apologist (if that), I am scheduled to give my first talk about apologetics to a group of high school girls. They they want me to cover Sola Scriptura, the Eucharist, and Mary in about an hour. That’s a lot for an hour, so I would really appreciate any advice on what to put in (and even more on what to leave out).

So, if you only had 15 minutes for each topic (leaving time for intro and conclusion), what would you find most important to discuss? Keep in mind that the audience is high school girls who probably haven’t had a lot of exposure to apologetics, even though they’re involved with their faith.
[/quote]

You should have started your preparation a bit sooner! Unless you are an expert in Scripture, Sacramental theology, and Mariology you may do more harm than good. I would re-schedule.


#9

Thanks everyone for the advice, and especially for the prayers. It looks like I’ll be giving my talk on February 18th.

Let me clarify a bit. Although I don’t have much experience speaking about apologetics, I have studied apologetics for over 5 years, so even though I’m no expert, I’m not just starting to prepare now. What I’m really focusing on right now is not trying to come up with arguments, but figuring out which arguments are most likely to be effective so that I can narrow it down a bit. What I’d like to do is give them enough that they feel like they can effectively defend the faith and spark their curiosity to continue studying apologetics on their own.

I have a few ideas:
My introduction will introduce and define apologetics and give some general advice.
Sola Scriptura

  1. history, including the need for the Church to determine which books were inspired and the general illiteracy for most of Christian history
  2. The impossibility of Scripture being able to logically prove its own inspiration. I might include a St. Augustine quote here: “I should not believe the gospel except moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
  3. Verses in Scripture that seem to support Sola Scriptura, like 2 Timothy 3:16, and an explanation of why they don’t really support Sola Scriptura
  4. Verses in Scripture that demonstrate the importance of the Church and of Tradition
  5. If time permits, I would like to discuss how the Church has a high regard for Scripture, maybe including quotes from Dei Verbum.
    The Eucharist
  6. I’d like to briefly address the idea of sacramentality and the connection to the Incarnation, showing that God does not shun matter.
  7. I’ll spend most of my time on John 6, maybe comparing Jesus’ response here to his response to Nicodemus in John 3 or his history of explaining things to his disciples in Mark 4:33-34.
  8. I think I’ll introduce 1 Corinthians 10 and 11 to show Paul’s understanding of the Eucharist.
  9. I might bring in the Fathers if time permits.
    Mary
  10. I’ll spend most of my time addressing what’s probably an underlying issue in a lot of discussions about Mary: the issue of how appropriate it is to honor Mary.
  11. I might address specific Marian dogmas if time permits. I will definitely mention what Fidelis pointed out about how Marian dogmas tell us about Christ or about the Church.

#10

[quote=Grace and Glory]Thanks everyone for the advice, and especially for the prayers. It looks like I’ll be giving my talk on February 18th.

Let me clarify a bit. Although I don’t have much experience speaking about apologetics, I have studied apologetics for over 5 years, so even though I’m no expert, I’m not just starting to prepare now. What I’m really focusing on right now is not trying to come up with arguments, but figuring out which arguments are most likely to be effective so that I can narrow it down a bit. What I’d like to do is give them enough that they feel like they can effectively defend the faith and spark their curiosity to continue studying apologetics on their own.

I have a few ideas:
My introduction will introduce and define apologetics and give some general advice.
Sola Scriptura

  1. history, including the need for the Church to determine which books were inspired and the general illiteracy for most of Christian history
  2. The impossibility of Scripture being able to logically prove its own inspiration. I might include a St. Augustine quote here: “I should not believe the gospel except moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
  3. Verses in Scripture that seem to support Sola Scriptura, like 2 Timothy 3:16, and an explanation of why they don’t really support Sola Scriptura
  4. Verses in Scripture that demonstrate the importance of the Church and of Tradition
  5. If time permits, I would like to discuss how the Church has a high regard for Scripture, maybe including quotes from Dei Verbum.
    The Eucharist
  6. I’d like to briefly address the idea of sacramentality and the connection to the Incarnation, showing that God does not shun matter.
  7. I’ll spend most of my time on John 6, maybe comparing Jesus’ response here to his response to Nicodemus in John 3 or his history of explaining things to his disciples in Mark 4:33-34.
  8. I think I’ll introduce 1 Corinthians 10 and 11 to show Paul’s understanding of the Eucharist.
  9. I might bring in the Fathers if time permits.
    Mary
  10. I’ll spend most of my time addressing what’s probably an underlying issue in a lot of discussions about Mary: the issue of how appropriate it is to honor Mary.
  11. I might address specific Marian dogmas if time permits. I will definitely mention what Fidelis pointed out about how Marian dogmas tell us about Christ or about the Church.
    [/quote]

Wow. Very nice. If you can get all that into an hour, I commend you.


#11

You may have someone recite to you:
1 Cor 4:6: But these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollo, for your sakes; that in us you may learn, that one be not puffed up against the other for another, above that which is written.

This can be a blindside if you don’t have a rebuttal ready, or just bring it up as you would 2 TIM 3:16. Then explain it.

It can be a tough verse if you are not prepared.

Anyone have any short effective refutations?


#12

[quote=TNT]You may have someone recite to you:
1 Cor 4:6: But these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollo, for your sakes; that in us you may learn, that one be not puffed up against the other for another, above that which is written.

This can be a blindside if you don’t have a rebuttal ready, or just bring it up as you would 2 TIM 3:16. Then explain it.

It can be a tough verse if you are not prepared.

Anyone have any short effective refutations?

[/quote]

Here:
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=92934
(esp. post3)


#13

[quote=Fidelis]It was not even possible for the majority of Christians to even dream of it before the invention of the printing press. Very poor planning on our Lord’s part!
[/quote]

Hi Fidelis, I have been flip flopping back and forth,…Catholics…yes…Catholics no…Protestants…yes…Protestants…no.

But this,…makes me think of lets say 810 AD. How can a person be brought to salvation without a “Bible”? Would or does “Sola Scriptura” even play apart in it?

A point to consider.


#14

[quote=TNT]You may have someone recite to you:
1 Cor 4:6: But these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollo, for your sakes; that in us you may learn, that one be not puffed up against the other for another, above that which is written.

This can be a blindside if you don’t have a rebuttal ready, or just bring it up as you would 2 TIM 3:16. Then explain it.

It can be a tough verse if you are not prepared.

Anyone have any short effective refutations?

[/quote]

  1. The New Testament wasn’t written then. If this verse proves anything, it proves that the Old Testament cannot be gone beyond! So much for the NT!

  2. The Bible as we know it did not eist until it was put together by the Church in 382 AD. The Church managed without a bible altogether for the first 350 years! All teaching was, as Jesus commanded in John, by the Church.

  3. Nowhere does Jesus write a book or demand a book be written. He gives His teaching authority to a living Church.

  4. There is no infallble contents table for the Bible. It’s contents were decided by the Catholic Church in 382 and 397 AD at the Councils of Hippo and Carthage. It was put together, not as an exclusive compendium of teaching, but in order to preserve and validate the Apostolic writings which had survived the persecutions.


#15

[quote=malachi_a_serva]But this,…makes me think of lets say 810 AD. How can a person be brought to salvation without a “Bible”?

[/quote]

By coming to the Church he established to hear the Gospel taught and preached. As was pointed out above, Jesus never wrote a line or gave instuctions to put together and hand out Bibles. But he did command his disciples to preach, as he did himself. The Church has always followed this lead faithfully:

Mr 1:38
And he said to them, “Let us go on to the next towns, that I may preach there also; for that is why I came out.”

Mr 3:14
And he appointed twelve, to be with him, and to be sent out to preach

Mr 16:15
And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation.

Lu 9:2
and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal.

Ac 10:42
And he commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that he is the one ordained by God to be judge of the living and the dead.

Ro 10:15
And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!”

1Co 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

1Co 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,

1Co 15:11
Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

2Co 10:16
so that we may preach the gospel in lands beyond you, without boasting of work already done in another’s field.

Ga 1:8
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed.

Ga 2:2
I laid before them (but privately before those who were of repute) the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, lest somehow I should be running or had run in vain.

2Ti 4:2
preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, convince, rebuke, and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching.


#16

I have a basic outline written for my talk now. (Basic=7+ pages.) Now I just have a few more questions:

I want to compare Mary to the Ark of the Covenant, which seems useful for defending both the Immaculate Conception and Mary’s perpetual virginity. I’m just not sure if that would (a) take up too much time or (b) get too complex, especially because the story of Uzzah, who died after touching the Ark, is complicated all on its own.

I also want to compare Mary to the gebirah, or queen mother, of the Old Testament. I’m pretty sure I’ll keep this in, because it’s not hard to understand and it shouldn’t take too much time to explain.

Do you think that one or both of these topics is important enough that I should leave it in, or that perhaps I should avoid one or both topics in order to focus more on other things?


#17

If I were you, I would talk for a bit and then let them bring up the questions. If you involve them in a discussion it might prove more effective than lecture. Thats just my suggestion.

Good luck. You have an important task before you. :thumbsup:


closed #18

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