MARY vs ADAM AND EVE


#1

A Thought And A Question.
Adam And Eve-created Full Of Grace-no Sin-no Death.
Mary-born Full Of Grace-no Sin-no Death.
So Why Did Adam And Eve Commit Sin And Mary
Didn’t?
How Could Adam And Eve Commit Sin If They Were
Full Of Grace?
Is It Somthing About Emnity Between Satan And Mary?
Just A Thought. Love To See Your Thoughts.


#2

[quote=CLW001]A Thought And A Question.
Adam And Eve-created Full Of Grace-no Sin-no Death.
[/quote]

Yes.

Mary-born Full Of Grace-no Sin-no Death.

Yes.

So Why Did Adam And Eve Commit Sin And Mary
Didn’t?

Free Will.

How Could Adam And Eve Commit Sin If They Were
Full Of Grace?

Again, Free Will. They decided that their desires were more important than that of God. Mary decided God’s desires were more important than hers.

Is It Somthing About Emnity Between Satan And Mary?

Nope, that statement was just a foreshadowning of Mary’s role in Salvation- by being the Mother of our Lord.


#3

Being created or being conceived sinless does not abrogate God’s gift of free will. Some of the angels fell. Adam and Eve fell, Mary did not fall Her will was conformed by her to Gods will and she did not chose to sin. The rest of us are born with Original Sin which weakens our ability to resist sin and conform our wills to that of God. Sin only happens when we freely choose to do so. Because of that weakness God forgives those who repent The angels had a superior knowledge of God and they therfore got only one shot. We are blesst.


#4

Adam and Eve, like Mary, had no interior inclinations towards sin, concupiscence (Sp?). They however, like Mary, could be tempted from some exterior means. This can be seen in the account of the Fall, Satan/Serpent tempts Eve and Eve likewise tempts Adam. We know that Mary never succumbed to this exterior temptation unlike Adam and Eve.


#5

[quote=flamingsword]Adam and Eve, like Mary, had no interior inclinations towards sin, concupiscence (Sp?). They however, like Mary, could be tempted from some exterior means. This can be seen in the account of the Fall, Satan/Serpent tempts Eve and Eve likewise tempts Adam. We know that Mary never succumbed to this exterior temptation unlike Adam and Eve.
[/quote]

CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG BUT DOSEN’T THE CHTHOLIC TEACH THAT MARY COULD NOT SIN BECAUSE OF THE ABUNDENCE OF GRACE RECEIVED ?


#6

[quote=CLW001]CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG BUT DOSEN’T THE CHTHOLIC TEACH THAT MARY COULD NOT SIN BECAUSE OF THE ABUNDENCE OF GRACE RECEIVED ?
[/quote]

Nope. She most certainly could have, but she didn’t. She was spared that tendency to sin that is the result of original sin, but the choice was still hers to sin or not.


#7

CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG BUT DOSEN’T THE CHTHOLIC TEACH THAT MARY COULD NOT SIN BECAUSE OF THE ABUNDENCE OF GRACE RECEIVED ?

Consider yourself corrected. Mary could have sinned, but didn’t.


#8

[quote=itsjustdave1988]Consider yourself corrected. Mary could have sinned, but didn’t.
[/quote]

thank you


#9

[quote=CLW001]CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG BUT DOSEN’T THE CHTHOLIC TEACH THAT MARY COULD NOT SIN BECAUSE OF THE ABUNDENCE OF GRACE RECEIVED ?
[/quote]

nope, it teaches she had free will, like everybody else, and did not sin because she always chose God’s will for her, as she demonstrated at the Annunciation.


#10

[quote=CLW001]thank you
[/quote]

Your welcome. For a very good explanation of the Catholic faith, including the fall of man, I recommend Fr. Leo Trese’s *The Faith Explained, *here: aquinasandmore.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/store.ItemDetails/SKU/643/index.htm


#11

You must realize that even though Adam and Eve were created in a perfect state they still had **free will ** within them.Man has always had the power of choice. Otherise he would be an automated robot.

                            Mary also when on earth was born with free will. She **chose** to obey God. Whether she was born sinless or not, had nothing to do with her action. Rather it was the end result **of a choice ** she freely made.

#12

[quote=itsjustdave1988]For a very good explanation of the Catholic faith, including the fall of man, I recommend Fr. Leo Trese’s *The Faith Explained, *here: aquinasandmore.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/store.ItemDetails/SKU/643/index.htm
[/quote]

For a very good explanation of the common questions brought against the Catholic faith, including the fall of man, I recommend itsjustdave1988’s site, *Itsjustdave’s Catholic Blog, *here:
itsjustdave1988.blogspot.com/

God bless you and keep you,
RyanL


#13

[quote=CLW001]A Thought And A Question.
Adam And Eve-created Full Of Grace-no Sin-no Death.
Mary-born Full Of Grace-no Sin-no Death.
So Why Did Adam And Eve Commit Sin And Mary
Didn’t?
How Could Adam And Eve Commit Sin If They Were
Full Of Grace?
Is It Somthing About Emnity Between Satan And Mary?
Just A Thought. Love To See Your Thoughts.
[/quote]

Adam and Eve were not born “full of grace.” The Adam and Eve story is a hypothetical portraying how each of us, in the absence of grace, would handle each and every moral question – badly.

The Adam and Eve story explains why the grace which suffused Mary and is available to each of us had to be purchased by Christ’s suffering and death.


#14

[quote=RyanL]For a very good explanation of the common questions brought against the Catholic faith, including the fall of man, I recommend itsjustdave1988’s site, *Itsjustdave’s Catholic Blog, *here:
itsjustdave1988.blogspot.com/

God bless you and keep you,
RyanL
[/quote]

Thanks Ryan.


#15

Biblereader,

Adam and Eve were not born “full of grace.” The Adam and Eve story is a hypothetical portraying how each of us, in the absence of grace, would handle each and every moral question – badly.

In no way to do I mean to be contentious, but the traditional and doctrinal view is that of monogenism. If polygenism was rejected by Catholic Church in Humani Generis, and it was, that means monogensim is official Catholic doctrine. Which means whatever their names, we had a single pair of first parents, really, not hypothetically. That single pair of first parent really committed an (original) sin, which was punished by God, causing their fall from grace and the fallen state of their progeny. I understand there are alternative theological perspectives, but the perspective of Catholic doctrine is that of monogensim.


#16

Is It Somthing About Emnity Between Satan And Mary?

[quote=Shiann]Nope, that statement was just a foreshadowning of Mary’s role in Salvation- by being the Mother of our Lord.
[/quote]

Not to disagree, but in her role as the New Ark of the Covenant, I would say the answer is “Yes”!

In Ancient Israel, Joshua and the Israeli army used the Ark of the Covenant to help defeat their enemies.

Today, the Church uses Mary to help defeat our enemy, Satan.

NotWorthy


#17

[quote=itsjustdave1988]Biblereader,

In no way to do I mean to be contentious, but the traditional and doctrinal view is that of monogenism. If polygenism was rejected by Catholic Church in Humani Generis, and it was, that means monogensim is official Catholic doctrine. Which means whatever their names, we had a single pair of first parents, really, not hypothetically. That single pair of first parent really committed an (original) sin, which was punished by God, causing their fall from grace and the fallen state of their progeny. I understand there are alternative theological perspectives, but the perspective of Catholic doctrine is that of monogensim.
[/quote]

Note that what I wrote is neither “monogenistic” nor “polygenistic.” It just says that the Adam and Eve story is a hypothetical.

Also, beware of exaggerating the importance of monogenism. Why is it important? Because the concept is a kind of “god” – a “demiurge” kind of “rising out of” Judeo-Christian theology?

No. It is important because something else is MORE important – as children of the human line, we are made of the same sin-hungry flesh hypothetically described in the Adam-and-Eve story.

The lesson of the Adam and Eve story isn’t, “God is a cruel sovereign who deprived 100 billion of Paradise for one sin committed by two people, which He did because kings are allowed to do that.” It isn’t, “All hail monogenism, demiurge of Christianity!” Rather, the lesson of the Adam and Eve story is, “You can’t do it without God.”


#18

Well, I believe that they are real human beings,
whats the purpose of creation, if both of them are not real.
read the gospel…and you can see that Jesus lineage directly from David to Abrahan to Adam.

Adam is also called the “son of God” (Luk 3:38)

btw, Jews believe that Adam and Eve are trully human beings
as we catholics are the fulfillment of Judaism, we believe the same.

[quote=BibleReader]Note that what I wrote is neither “monogenistic” nor “polygenistic.” It just says that the Adam and Eve story is a hypothetical.

Also, beware of exaggerating the importance of monogenism. Why is it important? Because the concept is a kind of “god” – a “demiurge” kind of “rising out of” Judeo-Christian theology?

No. It is important because something else is MORE important – as children of the human line, we are made of the same sin-hungry flesh hypothetically described in the Adam-and-Eve story.

The lesson of the Adam and Eve story isn’t, “God is a cruel sovereign who deprived 100 billion of Paradise for one sin committed by two people, which He did because kings are allowed to do that.” It isn’t, “All hail monogenism, demiurge of Christianity!” Rather, the lesson of the Adam and Eve story is, “You can’t do it without God.”
[/quote]


#19

[quote=NotWorthy]Is It Somthing About Emnity Between Satan And Mary?

Not to disagree, but in her role as the New Ark of the Covenant, I would say the answer is “Yes”!

In Ancient Israel, Joshua and the Israeli army used the Ark of the Covenant to help defeat their enemies.

Today, the Church uses Mary to help defeat our enemy, Satan.

NotWorthy
[/quote]

I understand what you are saying, and agree with it all.

I understood the OP’s questions to infer that Mary’s Grace somehow came from the “prophecy” that there would be emnity between her and Satan. That the strength of her choice to do God’s will came not from her free will, but from the prophecy.

Here is his/her question again:

(Statement)
Adam And Eve-created Full Of Grace-no Sin-no Death.

(Statement)
Mary-born Full Of Grace-no Sin-no Death.

(Main Question)
So Why Did Adam And Eve Commit Sin And Mary Didn’t?

(Main Question)
How Could Adam And Eve Commit Sin If They Were Full Of Grace?

(Possible Answer to above questions.)
Is It Somthing About Emnity Between Satan And Mary?


#20

When you or I are in a state of Grace, we also can choose sin. Also, the full of grace statement is only one of the basis’ for Mary’s sinlessness. There are others.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.