Mary Worship by saints?


#1

Now im catholic through and through but stumbled across this prayer:

PRAYER FOR PROTECTION AGAINST DEMONS

O Mary, powerful Virgin,

You are the mighty and glorious Protector of the Church.

You are the Marvelous Help of Christians.

You are Terrible as an Army set in Battle Array.

You alone have destroyed every heresy in the entire Church.

In the midst of my anguish, my struggles and my distress,

Defend me from the power of the enemy,

And at the hour of my death,

Receive my soul into Paradise.

(Saint John Bosco, C. 1880)

That is its full context. But does this prayer not replace Our Lord with Mary?

I am VERY confused.


#2

I have several prayers by St John Bosco, but never saw this one, what is your source, please.


#3

jesus-passion.com/LITANIES.htm

I thought the site was as traditional as you could get.?


#4

[quote=Magicsilence]… does this prayer not replace Our Lord with Mary?

I am VERY confused.
[/quote]

With respect, you belong to a body of faith which includes more than a billion people, and includes two thousand years of tradition, and you were expecting absolute homogeneity throughout?

Dig deep enough, and you will find all kinds of odd things.

Anyway, saints are people who once walked this earth and made mistakes like you and me.


#5

[quote=Magicsilence]That is its full context. But does this prayer not replace Our Lord with Mary?
[/quote]

No.

Mary and Jesus are NOT in competition. One does not replace the other. The mother and Son relationship is very intimate. All power of Mary comes through Jesus. She was given the privilege of participating intimately with our redemption, it makes sense that Jesus would continue to allow her to participate in His work (just as we are all called to participate in His work). True devotion to Mary is in essence true devotion to Jesus. She gives it all to her Son with her undefiled ands. Likewise, her intercession and prayers are more efficacious than any other human being (see John 2 and James 5:16) .

Don’t let protestants who refuse to call her blessed or honor her as Jesus would (see the 4th commandment) make you feel scrupulous about how we love her and understand how much Jesus loves her. :thumbsup:

Read this: ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM


#6

I questioned the validity of this prayer to Our Lady (posted on a seminary website as guidance for Deacons). I was told that it is just “understood” that Mary intercedes on our behalf and doesn’t answer our prayers directly, and so it is okay to pray directly to her.

(I haven’t solidified my opinion on their response)

Peace

<>

PRAYER TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY

MARY,

Who as teacher of faith, by your obedience to the

word of God, has co-operated in a remarkable way with

the work of redemption, make the ministry of deacons

effective by teaching them to hear the Word and

to proclaim it faithfully.

MARY,

Teacher of charity, who by your total openness to

God’s call, has co-operated in bringing to birth all the

Church’s faithful, make the ministry and the life of

deacons fruitful by teaching them to give themselves

totally to the service of the People of God.

MARY,

Teacher of prayer, who through your maternal

intercession has supported and helped the Church

from her beginnings, make deacons always attentive to

the needs of the faithful by teaching them to come to

know the value of prayer.

MARY,

Teacher of humility, by constantly knowing yourself

to be the servant of the Lord you were filled with the

Holy Spirit, make deacons docile instruments in

Christ’s work of redemption by teaching them the

greatness of being the least of all.

MARY,

Teacher of that service which is hidden, who by your

everyday and ordinary life filled with love, knew how to

co-operate with the salvific plan of God in an exemplary

fashion, make deacons good and faithful servants, by

teaching them the joy of serving the Church with an ardent love.

AMEN


#7

[quote=Kev ><>]I questioned the validity of this prayer to Our Lady (posted on a seminary website as guidance for Deacons). I was told that it is just “understood” that Mary intercedes on our behalf and doesn’t answer our prayers directly, and so it is okay to pray directly to her.

(I haven’t solidified my opinion on their response)

Peace

<>

[/quote]

Wow, that is an awesome prayer. I also honestly can’t see how anyone could possibly construe it in a negative light (unless of course they were some sort of protestant who doesn’t believe in praying to saints at all).


#8

[quote=Genesis315]Wow, that is an awesome prayer. I also honestly can’t see how anyone could possibly construe it in a negative light (unless of course they were some sort of protestant who doesn’t believe in praying to saints at all).
[/quote]

My difficulty with this comes from the fact that I am a PK (preacher’s kid) who converted to the Catholic faith…but I’m growing and maturing and am closer to accepting these prayers than what I used to be. It’s encouraging to see a Catholic who posts such as passionate response as you have.

Thanks!

<>


#9

since the website posted knocked me off the web and forced me to reboot and run virus scan, twice, (enough reason for me to condemn the site) I cannot evaluate its homepage, but would advise anyone interested in this site to do so. anybody can post a site and call it Catholic, that does not make it so.


#10

I love that prayer! That’s beautiful :).

Remember, too, that these statements are under the assumption that she works within Jesus- anything the saints do is because of Jesus, it is he who grants them the ability to do what they do. I thanks St Soandso for granting my petition, and I know that they were able to do so because it was in line with the will of God and Jesus allowed them to do so. Does that help any?


#11

I think it is always helpful to keep prayers in context. If this prayer is authentic and is actually from St. John Bosco, then recall the time period in which it was written. The 19th century’s literary style was far more flowery and effusive than we are used to in our own time. Also, a prayer is not necessarily a theological treatise: it can be a love letter. If you read the lines, “How do I love thee? Let me count the ways. I love thee to the depth and breadth and height My soul can reach, when feeling out of sight For the ends of being and ideal grace”, etc., you don’t assume that the poet Elizabeth Barret Browning thought her husband was God or of equal stature with Him. I think people needlessly get themselves into a tizzy over these things because they don’t understand prayers and their context very well.


#12

At the wedding feast of Cana, to whom did the attendants bring their needs?

To Mary

Who provided the solution?

Christ.

This is a wonderful model, we may take ANY need we have and have Mary present it, on our behalf, to her Son.

And BTW, “Prayer” and “Worship” are two different things

“To pray” means to ask, to implore, to humbly request… People ask\pray to each others all the time. That doesn’t mean that St. John Bosco was ‘worshipping’ Mary by praying to her.


#13

Brendan I llike your response.

Kev and MagicSilence I had a struggle with Saint Alphonsus Liguori’s Prayers to Mary each day of the week after I joined the CC. But I persisted asking God to help and trust it was the correct thing to say those prayers. Slowly I began to really enjoy them.


#14

You alone have destroyed every heresy in the entire Church.

It is this part of the prayer that got me.

Does anyone have any links i could read about the Church’s official teachings on Mary, what her role is, and what Jesus has entrusted to her.??

I love Mary, to bits. And i am eternally grateful to her but I dont know how to react to such prayers which seem to place all power in the hands of Mary.

Is it wrong that i dont want to pray to Mary? Yes i honour her, she is the blessed virgin and maybe i still need to grow in faith, but i do not have this desire which most of the saints seem to have had which is to almost forget Jesus, Id rather focus on his passion of Christ, than on the pain Mary suffered while Jesus was suffering.

I feel like such a traitor. My focus revolves around Christ, ( I know the whole story about loving the mother of someone you love, and how is it any different to christ ), but I still feel like giving everything to Mary seems to be pushing Jesus out of the picture.

Please help me someone.

In Christ.

Mary.


#15

Majicsilence

Did you check the library from Catholic Answers? They have info and also check newadvent.com under M for Mary, the Blessed. Also there is a book called the Essential Mary Handbook by Liguori Press. There are tons of books, but when I had questions I enjoyed “hail, Holy Queen” by scott hahn.

I have had a similar trouble after I joined the CC. I just read anything I could that had the CC’s approval that it is free from error in doctrine. Pray that the Holy Spirit will be with you to open your heart and mind. I’m still working on it, and probably will all my life to some degree. It the effort that matters


#16

[quote=Magicsilence]Is it wrong that i dont want to pray to Mary? Yes i honour her, she is the blessed virgin and maybe i still need to grow in faith, but i do not have this desire which most of the saints seem to have had which is to almost forget Jesus, Id rather focus on his passion of Christ, than on the pain Mary suffered while Jesus was suffering.

I feel like such a traitor. My focus revolves around Christ, ( I know the whole story about loving the mother of someone you love, and how is it any different to christ ), but I still feel like giving everything to Mary seems to be pushing Jesus out of the picture.
[/quote]

Being an outsider to the faith, prayer to Mary and to the other saints has always seemed peculiar, and so I have asked a lot of questions about it. It has always been explained to me that prayer to Mary is permitted rather than demanded. The Catechism says that it is right to honour Mary, and that prayer is one possible method of doing this, but does not require such prayer as far as I can see.

970 “Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it.” 513 “No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.” 514

971 “All generations will call me blessed”: “The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.” 515 The Church rightly honors “the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration.” 516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary. 517
Anyway, God is God. Our understanding of God will always be imperfect, and God knows this. Not being unjust, God will not condemn us for our mere humanity.


#17

In his famous work, Treatise On True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin, St Louis de Montfort explains why we should honour Mary and pray to her (the post by Genesis 315 has given the web link).

It is important to note what St Louis writes at the beginning of his treatise:

With the whole Church I acknowledge that Mary, being a mere creature fashioned by the hands of God is, compared to his infinite majesty, less than an atom, or rather is simply nothing, since he alone can say, “I am he who is”. Consequently, this great Lord, who is ever independent and self-sufficient, never had and does not now have any absolute need of the Blessed Virgin for the accomplishment of his will and the manifestation of his glory. To do all things he has only to will them.

In other words, St Louis is in no way intending to lessen God or God’s power by honouring Mary. I think that Protestants looking from outside the Church may not understand this and think they are witnessing something that is, in fact, not happening. To really understand Catholic devotion to Mary it is important to understand the Catholic view of the Church as the Body of Christ in which we all support each other under God.


#18

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