Be a good witness to Christ by submitting to the teachings of the Church and the authority of the Pope. The grace of your obedience will guide you in evangenlising your brothers.
I don’t think you understand that masonry is relativistic. It doesn’t care if OP lives a good life because people of all faiths can. They need to be shown what’s wrong to truly change. That is OP’s goal.
Give them the writings of the Vatican on freemasonary. We cannot really do better then that of several Popes can we.
We cannot use random internet information in academic circles either.
Why not tell your masonary circles that the focus on worshipping any god is pagan, and that masonary is luciferian. If they dont listen to that , they wont listen to heresy.
I don’t see where the OP said this. He’s mentioned otherwise several times.
I don’t really agree with this. One, it unfairly attributes to the OP something that isn’t really obvious and could be untrue, and two, his attitude isn’t superior as much as it is exasperated at people misunderstanding and replying past his post.
He doesn’t reject Church teaching. He wants to create a document which does a line by line breakdown of why the Church is right that Masonry is anti-Christian. There’s nothing wrong with such an effort and it has practical value when discussing it with non-Catholic Christians.
It just seems strange to me that even non masons know that secrecy is one of the hallmarks of masonry as it “so deeply entrenched in financial and business endeavours”. Penalties for revealing secrets are devastating.
Perhaps another . . . highly trained academic theologian. . . will satisfy the OP.
Part 1 - Watch from the 5 minute mark.
Part 2 - Watch from the 4 minute mark.
That is why OP is trying to find an ex-Mason who isn’t scared to spill the heretical beans. He doesn’t need opinions from other people, he wants the testimony of someone who has been in the ceremony.
Also, that snide remark at the OP is very uncharitable. If you’ll make no effort to understand him, at least save the insults.
The writings of the Vatican are addressed to Catholics. They tell Catholics why they should not become freemasons.
They do not attempt to explain to Freemasons why their rituals are heretical in their nature.
Probably you have not read the text of a masonic ritual much less seen it in action. It is cleverly constructed so that very unchristian ideas are actively promoted using ambiguous language which (mostly) could be accepted by a Christian but whose ambiguity, combined with a symbolism which is clear for those who think about it, in fact furthers an unchristian philosophy.
As one commentator rightly said on this thread, relativism is an important element behind masonic ideas. The idea that “my truth” is as valid as “your truth” is one of the most damaging ideas to come out of freemasonry and you find it everywhere.
Ok so you have to relate to these friends in a non catholic way, which automatically rules out
‘dont be a free mason because it is heretical to the Catholic Church’.
That argument will be meaningless without knowledge of the Catholic Church and the ability to read what Catholic Popes and theologians have said about why the freemasons are heretics and to be avoided.
Why are you trying to raise this argument?
Do these people believe in the devil?
Most of them are high church Anglicans who have accepted freemasonry’s own claim that it does not impinge on the religious beliefs of its members.
But do you not think that the reason that 33rd degree masonry is so secret because they already know how the principles are the antithesis of Catholic principles? Perhaps one day you might arrange a clandestine meeting with an ex 33rd degree Mason, but how is that sort of nod, nod, wink, wink, going to be the basis of a credible Catholic response?
I cannot help noticing that one or two of the participants in this thread have been questioning me quite aggressively as if they were intrinsically hostile to the idea of a Catholic using his training to debunk masonic ritual.
If anyone thinks this is wrong please explain why.
The point is that most freemasons have never seen a 33 degree ritual. I haven’t, at least not one that I can be certain is genuine and current, and I got quite far up the ladder before I left.
If the ritual I have seen on the internet is genuine, it completely contradicts what masons are told when they join. This could cause some of them to consider whether they want to continue.
By analogy: imagine you got a good job in the manufacturing industry which claimed that all its products were ecofriendly. Then someone showed you board minutes proving that the company was deep into pollutants. You might then decide to move elsewhere.
High Church Anglicans have a broadly similar understanding to Catholics of what constitutes heresy, on a very high proportion of issues.
Yes, as a matter of fact the Church of England looked much more closely at Masonic ritual and its implications than the Vatican does in its condemnations. For example, it identified both pelagian and gnostic ideas.
What “argument?” This is a post which makes a simple request, that if any ex 33 degree freemason reads this, could he confirm for me the correct text of the 33 degree ritual. That is all.
OP im sorry but i do not have any information that may be helpful to your cause. I will however say i do not understand the opposition displayed in this thread to keep you from trying. I hope you do become better armed to defend and explain our faith to all including the Freemasons. I wish i could help.
You claim to be a highly educated theologian. At least identify to us what degrees you hold in these fields.
Sometimes I wonder if Catholics are suspicious of Free Masons because the rituals are private and secret, founded by Protestants, and therefore can’t be trusted, and by extension are demonic.
Im sure that’s part of it but there are also concrete theological problems with masonic ritual which flow from its deliberate ambiguities.