Masonic deception, or we are deceived?


#1

Hi,

Not being a Mason myself, but having had some Mason in me from time to time (my dentist is a Mason, and he’s had his fingers in my mouth), and knowing people who know Masons, and so on, I’ve got a question.

Yes, I’ve read the related threads on Masonry, and they never went very far, at least the ones I’ve found.

I know you are all anti-Masons, and so am I. But isn’t it odd that so many younger Masons appear unaware of all the things Catholics and Reformed folks accuse them of? Like, what we’re talking about is a different Masonic teaching than what they know.

Maybe we’ve got it all wrong? Just a thought, I’m not falling for it, I don’t want to be a Mason. But c’mon!! How is it that so many Protestant elders and deacons are Masons. Wooop, don’t forget supposed Masonic influences in Vatican II and the Novus Ordo. You’re not so whitewashed yourself Mr. Catholic!

Anybody care to comment? I’m not being argumentative, just bringing it up.


#2

[quote=Reformed Rob]Hi,

Not being a Mason myself, but having had some Mason in me from time to time (my dentist is a Mason, and he’s had his fingers in my mouth), and knowing people who know Masons, and so on, I’ve got a question.

Yes, I’ve read the related threads on Masonry, and they never went very far, at least the ones I’ve found.

I know you are all anti-Masons, and so am I. But isn’t it odd that so many younger Masons appear unaware of all the things Catholics and Reformed folks accuse them of? Like, what we’re talking about is a different Masonic teaching than what they know.

Maybe we’ve got it all wrong? Just a thought, I’m not falling for it, I don’t want to be a Mason. But c’mon!! How is it that so many Protestant elders and deacons are Masons. Wooop, don’t forget supposed Masonic influences in Vatican II and the Novus Ordo. You’re not so whitewashed yourself Mr. Catholic!

Anybody care to comment? I’m not being argumentative, just bringing it up.
[/quote]

The reason they [young masons] dont see it is because they are blinded to the truth. You have a choice ,because you can only serve one master. You can chose to follow or Lord Jesus Christ or you can chose to follow Lucifer, the Grande Architect of the Universe. :eek:


#3

[size=3]“The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion… Consequently, neither the excommunication nor the other penalties envisaged have been abrogated.” -[/size]Cardinal Ratzinger, Sacred Congregation for the***[size=3] Doctrine of the Faith, November 26, 1983*[/size] **


There are many individual Masons who have nothing but good to say about the Catholic Church and, if anything, they admire it. But they do so as our fair-minded fellow citizens and not as Masons. And in so doing, they are not reflecting the official attitude of Freemasonry which time and time again has expressed its absolute opposition to the Catholic Church.

 As late at 1913, the Grand Orient in France issued this statement: **“The aim of the Grand Orient is to crush Roman Catholicism in France first, and then elsewhere.”** When Masons had previously tried to disavow such excesses, the American Albert Pike wrote: “... it is idle for you to protest. You are Freemasons and you recognize them as Freemasons. You give them countenance, encouragement and support, and you are jointly responsible with them and cannot shirk that responsibility.” This is a clear statement of the oneness of Freemasonry throughout the world.

Source: tldm.org/News6/Masons1.htm


#4

I imagine the people who join aren’t jews or Christians that are educated in their faith. Otherwise they would see something wrong with praying to Gaotu. The people that join should also be responsible enough to hear what ex-members say about the secret ceremonies. I think most join for business connections.


#5

[quote=Reformed Rob] But isn’t it odd that so many younger Masons appear unaware of all the things Catholics and Reformed folks accuse them of? Like, what we’re talking about is a different Masonic teaching than what they know.
[/quote]

I do not find it odd at all; think about our own Church for instance, a person takes instruction, is baptized and begins to be a practicing Catholic at their local parish.

Even becomes active there, involved with ministry, Scripture classes, holds a position or two in the parish. As time goes on they branch out to interaction with other parishes and perhaps even with their diocesan office.

Now you tell me - how much will this person simply by attrition know at say the end of a 5 year period, about the inner workings of the church? Abut the positions and writings of various bishops and cardinals particuarly with regard to foreign history? About papal elections and the politicking? About the history and the pertinent information on the NCCB? About the backgrounds and “positions” of decision makers at the highest levels of the church?

Most Grand Orient Lodges in Europe differ a great deal from management style and “worthy names” plus a very ancient history of rites and reading than do the ones in the US. Most of those you refer to I would venture to guess join it as a fraternal organization and work within their own communities. Very few will go beyond that.

[quote=Reformed Rob] Maybe we’ve got it all wrong? Just a thought, I’m not falling for it, I don’t want to be a Mason. But c’mon!! How is it that so many Protestant elders and deacons are Masons. Wooop, don’t forget supposed Masonic influences in Vatican II and the Novus Ordo. You’re not so whitewashed yourself Mr. Catholic!
[/quote]

No the Church doesn’t have it wrong. It has a vast and lengthy experience right up unto the present day and the Lodge P2 scandal was no small matter. It destroyed a few careers, left others under a cloud of suspicion and influenced a great many other things. That was the tip of the iceberg which showed itself.
nd you know what they say about icebergs, 3/4 of them are unseen.

I will point to a small detail regarding this subject: Vatican watchers and students of Vatican goings on will tell you that often what the Pope doesn’t say or do, is equally as important as what he does say and do. You have to develop a sense of the “Vaticanese” surrounding it. This pope has asked the pardon of, apologized to, and made overtures with just about every group of living individuals excepting one, Masonry. I leave the conclusions you may or may not draw about that to your own thinking.


#6

FREEMASONRY is still common in the Church of Scotland despite calls more than a decade ago for Kirk members to “reconsider” their position with the secret organisation.

According to a number of ministers, membership of the society has continued unabated since the Kirk’s general assembly heard in 1989 that there were “very real theological difficulties” with Freemasonry.
news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=207&id=185672003


#7

[quote=SPOKENWORD]… or you can chose to follow Lucifer, the Grande Architect of the Universe. :eek:
[/quote]

I thought God is the “grande architect of the universe”? :confused:


#8

[quote=mrS4ntA]I thought God is the “grande architect of the universe”? :confused:
[/quote]

The OP was speakig in Masonic terms not in Christian to make his point.


#9

[quote=Reformed Rob]Hi,

Maybe we've got it all wrong?  Just a thought, I'm not falling for it, I don't want to be a Mason.  But c'mon!!  How is it that so many Protestant elders and deacons are Masons. 

[/quote]

This is funny. Just as I came home from a journey from Assisi, on which a protestants priest/friend revealed his deep commitment to masonry - he actually, I suspect, wanted to recruit me - and so I find this thread. From talking to my protestant minister and active mason I found this: the psychology of mansonry seems to be demonic. It is very far from classical realistic christianity. It does what greek thought did, what gnostic thinkers did and still do and heretic christians did and still do - it creates fascination for abstract and secret knowledge.

Now that seems pretty harmless, does it not? We all had secret clubs as kids? Well, it is not harmless. My protestant minister, after some wine, presented an extremely devious and sinister web of ideas and gnostic desires. Though I am 54 and have teached philosophy for 30 years, I found myself in a state of fear and apprehension. This was clearly deep heresy. I have a hard time seeing that this minister can be in a state of grace at all, let alone stay a friend of mine with any true intimacy.

There is in the masonic interest this mixture of innocence and diabolic influence that you often find our days in New Age and neognostic circles. For whatever sad reason they don’t turn to the Gospel with its strong and realistic saving faith – we have to point in that direction and not take masonry lightly. Take care!

Staffan Humlebo, Sweden


#10

[quote=Reformed Rob]Hi,

Not being a Mason myself, but having had some Mason in me from time to time (my dentist is a Mason, and he’s had his fingers in my mouth), and knowing people who know Masons, and so on, I’ve got a question.

Yes, I’ve read the related threads on Masonry, and they never went very far, at least the ones I’ve found.

I know you are all anti-Masons, and so am I. But isn’t it odd that so many younger Masons appear unaware of all the things Catholics and Reformed folks accuse them of? Like, what we’re talking about is a different Masonic teaching than what they know.

Maybe we’ve got it all wrong? Just a thought, I’m not falling for it, I don’t want to be a Mason. But c’mon!! How is it that so many Protestant elders and deacons are Masons. Wooop, don’t forget supposed Masonic influences in Vatican II and the Novus Ordo. You’re not so whitewashed yourself Mr. Catholic!

Anybody care to comment? I’m not being argumentative, just bringing it up.
[/quote]

I think freemasonry has a strangelhold on society. It is Luciferian and one should always pray for them c.f. St.Max Kolbe


#11

Wow! What timing!!

Howbouthat!
My Catholic friend Jay has some books on Masonry, some of them actually Masonic books defending Masonry (he’s avidly anti-Masonry) and one of the books is all about how they claim the Masonry was alive and well in the early heretics, including primarily the Gnostic sects (the ones OUT of the Catholic Church). So they go back and say, “look, here is the religion of Christ and His Apostles, they were being persecuted by the Catholics, the Catholics believed all this crazyness about some trinity, and the gnostics kept the true religion pure.” That’s a summary, but you see what lengths they will go to!!

I’ve noticed also, a “Masonic Temple” is an oxymoron!!

Most (all??) of the ones I’ve seen are about as “temply” as a doublewide trailer!! Like, they’ll build a nice single story building with a flat roof and call it a “temple.” And they’re supposed to be architects/masons?? They need to get their construction terms right!!


#12

Go To newadvent.org/cathen/09771a.htm This is the Catholic responce to Freemasonry.


#13

[quote=SPOKENWORD]The reason they [young masons] dont see it is because they are blinded to the truth. You have a choice ,because you can only serve one master. You can chose to follow or Lord Jesus Christ or you can chose to follow Lucifer, the Grande Architect of the Universe. :eek:
[/quote]

According to the Book of Wisdom, it is God who made the universe “by, number, measure, and weight” :slight_smile:

Even having seen the OPP., though, I think I’ll leave this post, for the picture :slight_smile:

Hence, presumably, Blake’s drawing of God with the compasses.

faculty.winthrop.edu/kosterj/ENGL201/neoclassical.htm for text ##


#14

I find this topic very interesting, because I have tried asking my dad about the Masons. Whenever I mention Masons, he mentions how there is nothing wrong with them because every man in my dad’s family was one.


#15

[quote=luckyirishguy14]I find this topic very interesting, because I have tried asking my dad about the Masons. Whenever I mention Masons, he mentions how there is nothing wrong with them because every man in my dad’s family was one.
[/quote]

Yes, and that is called a generational curse. That curse needs to be broken In Jesus name. You might be next in line? :eek: Masons serve a False Master.


#16

About every other week there’s a brief conversation with my mom about this. She doesn’t know anything about the Masons, but even though I know at least some things about them, she rebutts with “well so and so was a Mason, and he was a great guy and went to church.” That’s not the point though! I hope I don’t find out about any more members of my family ever being masons!!!

Well, if indeed the masons are evil and anti-Christian (which I operate on the belief that they are, at least the organization itself, not necessarily every member) then they have done a magnificient job of disguising that from the “world.”


#17

[quote=Reformed Rob]Hi,

Not being a Mason myself, but having had some Mason in me from time to time (my dentist is a Mason, and he’s had his fingers in my mouth), and knowing people who know Masons, and so on, I’ve got a question.

Yes, I’ve read the related threads on Masonry, and they never went very far, at least the ones I’ve found.

I know you are all anti-Masons, and so am I. But isn’t it odd that so many younger Masons appear unaware of all the things Catholics and Reformed folks accuse them of? Like, what we’re talking about is a different Masonic teaching than what they know.

Maybe we’ve got it all wrong? Just a thought, I’m not falling for it, I don’t want to be a Mason. But c’mon!! How is it that so many Protestant elders and deacons are Masons. Wooop, don’t forget supposed Masonic influences in Vatican II and the Novus Ordo. You’re not so whitewashed yourself Mr. Catholic!

Anybody care to comment? I’m not being argumentative, just bringing it up.
[/quote]

"Tell me thy company, and I’ll tell thee what thou art " .

  • Miguel de Cervantes ( 1547 - 1616 ) Spanish writer

Rob:

Hopefully you don’t bite your Masonic dentist’s fingers !

( Just kidding…)

How can Freemasonry be so “terrible” if George Washington and 13 other Presidents were members ?

Famous others: Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, actor John Wayne, Mozart ( a Catholic ),** Dave Thomas** founder of Wendy’s, Danny Thomas ( St. Jude’s Hospital ) Frederic Bartholdi ( Statue of Liberty sculptor / Catholic ), ** Irving Berlin**, Methodist Bishop Hiram Boaz, actor** Ernest Borgnine**, Scottish poet Robert Burns, Winston Churchill, guitarist Roy Clark, Mark Twain, Senator Bob Dole, ( the current ) Lord Elgin of Scotland, Geoffrey Fisher, 99th Archbishop of Canterbury, actor Glenn Ford, President Gerald Ford, Henry Ford, actor Clark Gable, astronaut / Senator John Glenn, TV host Arthur Godfrey, the poet / writer Goethe ( a Catholic ) , composer Franz Haydn ( a Catholic ), patriot Patrick Henry, balladeer Burl Ives, John Paul Jones ( founder of the U.S. Navy ), Senator Jack Kemp, Rudyard Kipling, aviator Charles Lindbergh, Methodist Bishop John Wesley Lord…

Sounds like a really gnarly and subversive group, huh ? ( That’s just a partial listing : mostly the A - L bunch ) For the M - Z list, you’re gonna have to do it on your own: www.masonicinfo.com/famous2.htm

Obviously, these are the standouts, but Scripture clearly states:
“You shall know them by their fruits”.

As an active Freemason, I find the biggest curiosity of being a member of Catholic Answers Forum is the anti-masonic fervor which pops up from time to time. Most is simply misinformation, but some is really downright - um, mean.

Yes, the Fraternity and the Roman Catholic Church have had a bumpy history over the past three centuries - it reached its zenith in the late 19th century. But relations have improved dramatically overall in the past 30 years. ( That’s why younger Masons are unaware that they’re supposed to persecute Catholics, Rob ).

I don’t know what to do or say about it sometimes, and found the website ( unofficial, yet well-informed and factual ) of a brother Mason to be helpful. Ed even laughs at himself and occasional Masonic pomposity at times - a healthy attitude while discussing ( and defending ) serious topics.

Are Masons anti-Catholic ?

www.masonicinfo.com/anticatholic.htm

Are Masons “at war” with the Knights of Columbus ?

www.masonicinfo.com/KofC.htm

Is Freemasonry a religion ?

www.masonicinfo.com/religion2.htm

Didn’t the Italian Masonic Lodge bankrupt the Vatican Bank in the 1980’s ?

www.masonicinfo.com/p_2lodge.htm

Hearsay, rumor and suspicions fuel bigotry - even wars.

If we’re all working for the common good, we can’t get much done with these distractions and feuds draining our energy.

I’ve never heard anti-Catholic remarks in any lodge I’ve visited or belonged to- it simply isn’t done. Quoting choice tidbits of long-dead popes and long-dead Masons ( circa 1884 ) is um, deadly. Even the Church evolves, as do all organizations - including Freemasonry.

I hope relations continue to improve - historical intolerance and misunderstandings ought to be laid aside…

.


#18

Some that join, may do out of ignorance, but as said on previous threads you can’t be a mason and be Catholic.

You can’t have a foot in both camps, (darkness/ light) satan or Jesus.
Or as Jesus said to Judas, “whatever you have to do, do it” Jesus says the same to us, “MAKE A CHOICE”.


#19

. Today, we understand by a secret society, a society with secrets, having a ritual demanding an oath of allegiance and secrecy, prescribing ceremonies of a religious character, such as the use of the Bible, either by extracts therefrom, or by its being placed an altar within a lodge-room, by the use of prayers, of hymns, of religious signs and symbols, special funeral services, etc." (Rosen, “The Catholic Church and Secret Societies,” p. 2). Raich gives a more elaborate description: "Secret societies are those organizations which completely conceal their rules, corporate activity, the names of their members, their signs, passwords and usages from outsiders or the ‘profane.’ As a rule, the members of these societies are bound to the strictest secrecy concerning all the business of the association by oath or promise or word of honour, and often under the threat of severe punishment in case of its violation. Archbishop Katzer in a Pastoral (20 Jan., 1895) says: "The Catholic Church has declared that she considers those societies illicit and forbidden which (1) unite their members for the purpose of conspiring against the State or Church; (2) demand the observance of secrecy to such an extent that it must be maintained even before the rightful ecclesiastical authority; (3) exact an oath from their members or a promise of blind and absolute obedience; (4) make use of a ritual and ceremonies that constitute them sects."
newadvent.org/cathen/14071b.htm

Consider this senario. A Catholic is a Mason. He has been assigned by the secret Masonic Society to do an illegal act that will benifit the Masons financially. The man goes to confession because of his guilt. Since he swore secrecy to the Masons he cannot confess his crime. The secrecy is detremental to his soul.


#20

Here is an interesting link to look into:

www.scripturecatholic.com/freemasonfaq.html


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