Mass Rites

Most of the Latin Catholic Church sui iuris uses the Roman Rite of Mass (sometimes with minor adaptations). I know that the Archdiocese of Milan has its own Ambrosian Rite and that Toledo in Spain has the Mozarabic Rite. I believe that some religious orders have their own rites. There is also the so-called Anglican Usage in certain parts of the USA.

  1. Does any one have a complete list of all rites authorised in the Latin Catholic Church sui iuris?
  2. How much do they differ from the Roman Rite?

I suppose I should add for clarification that I refer to the ordinary form of Mass and not the extraordinary form. However, having said that it would be an interesting point to ask does any Latin Catholic Church sui iuris rite other than the Roman Rite have the right (permission) to celebrate their rite in an extraordinary (pre-Vatican II) form?

All of the Rites used by religious orders are similar to the Tridentine Mass and are done in Latin; there aren’t any Rites that have “updated” to be similar to the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite. So any Religious Orders that don’t use their original Rite, or the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite in some cases, use the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite.

As for Religious Orders using their original Rites, the Carmelites in Wyoming use the Carmelite Rite, the Clear Creek Benedictines use the EF and the Benedictine Office, and the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate are phasing in the EF and Latin Breviary.

Sorry, I don’t have “sources” handy, but I will offer the following:

The surviving “geographical” Rites are:

[LIST=1]
*]Ambrosian (in the ancient ecclesiastical Province of Milan which is not co-extensive with the present Archdiocese of Milan and even extends into part of Ticino in Swizterland). It currently exists in an OF-equivalent as well as the original (its EF-equivalent. There are several churches that offer the traditional version. The Archbishop is less than an avid supporter, but within the past year, the PCED clarified that Summorum Pontificum applies equally to all Western Rites, so the traditional Ambrosian is now able to be offered more freely.)
*]Mozarabic (This underwent a “reform” that was finalized in the mid-1990s (I think). From what I understand, it was more of a true “restoration” than a Novus Ordo-type change. Several years ago, the Benedictine monks of Santo Domingo de Silas petitioned for, and were granted, use of it, so it’s use again extends beyond Toledo).
*]Bragan (As far as I know, this did not undergo a post-conciliar “reform” and I’m told that it was rarely seen in the past 40+ years. In the wake of Summorum Pontificum, however, it seems to have made a come-back as the regional equivalent of the EF.)
*]Lyons (This one survived Trent, as it was the one direct branch of the Gallican that had remained in continuous use for over 200 years at the time, and continued in use until the Novus Ordo. I’m told that it has begun to reappear within the ecclesiastical Province of Lyons in the wake of Summorum Pontificum)
*]Sarum (Although it did not survive Trent, I gather that it is occasionally used in the UK by special indult, so I will include it here.)
[/LIST]

The surviving Rites proper to the Orders are:
[LIST=2]
*]Carthusian (The General Chapter ordered a “reform” which, I believe, was completed in the mid-1980s. I don’t know the extent of the “reform” but I think the reformed Missal supplanted its predecessor.)
*]Dominican (use of the traditional Dominican Rite is allowed at the discretion of the Prior Provincial. The Western Province in the US (among others elsewhere including, I believe, the UK) does permit it. It has no post-conciliar version.)
*]Cistercian (the traditional Cistercian Rite was recently reprised by Mariawald Abbey in toto, and I’ve heard that other Abbeys also use it, although not exclusively. I don’t believe there is a post-conciliar version.
*]Carmeltie (The traditional Carmelite Rite was never suppressed, although it has, most unfortunately, been unused and in a state of suspended animation since the 1970s. Again, no post-conciliar version.)
*]Norbertine (The Norbertine Rite survived Trent but was abandoned by vote of the General Chapter of the Order shortly thereafter. As far as I know, it could (in theory, at least) be revived the swame way, but I am unaware of any movement in that direction.)
[/LIST]

Each of the above does differ from the Roman Rite, some more, and some less. A google search will give some comparative listings.

I don’t know if any of the above is helpful, but it’s what I can offer. :slight_smile:

To a degree, yes, but it’s mainly true of the Canon. If one looks at a comparison, the differences elsewhere are very clear.

They are not Carmelites in the true sense, meaning that they are not part of the O.Carm nor are they even of Pontifical Right. As such, whether they have a valid claim to use the ancient Carmelite Rite is highly questionable.

Thanks malphono I found that both interesting and useful and am very grateful to you for it.

I knew that some of the orders had practices that differ from the Roman Rite. For example, I believe that Cistercians, or perhaps to be more precise, the Trappists never genuflect but make a profound bow. I wish I’d bookmarked it but recently I saw online a pictorial ‘tour’ of a Carthusian priory (in Italy if my memory serves me correctly) and during the Eucharistic Prayer the monks prostrate themselves, or as much as this is possible in choir stalls.

As an aside, do you know why many of the orders never “updated” their Mass following Vatican II?

Thanks once again, MH

You’re welcome. I’m happy that it was of some use to you. :slight_smile:

I haven’t had the privilege of assisting at Mass in the Cistercian Rite since 1970 but I have a vague memory of that. And BTW, it would most likely be properly the O.Cist. The OCSO generally abandoned the Cistercian Rite many centuries ago (with the notable exception of Mariawald Abbey which recently reverted to it).

Quite simple, really: why bother when they had the Novus Ordo to go to? Actually, I am thankful that they did what they did: it means those ancient and venerable usages remain free of post-conciliar “influence” (for lack of a better word).

Interesting! I’ve never been to Mass at a cistercian monastery, only the Divine Office. I assumed it was the OCSO’s because we’ve no O.Cist’s in the UK and I believe I read it on a UK OCSO monastery’s website. I understood it that bowing rather than genuflecting was part of their usages rather than being integral to their own rite. Therefore, I assumed they bowed rather than genuflected even in the Roman Rite.

If I’m not mistaken, the OCSO held to the Office, but abandoned the Missale Cisterciense, so the bowing may well be traditional to them as well. (And again, if I recall correctly, the OCSO did not “share” books with the O.Cist, meaning that they printed their own editions, so there may have been some variants there too. I have a partial set of an O.Cist breviary and it’s clear that it was for the O.Cist only.) But, as I said earlier, it’s been a lot of years for me since I assisted at both the Office in choir and Conventual Mass at an O.Cist abbey, so my memories are a little fuzzy. :eek:

This is true.

They are not Carmelites in the true sense, meaning that they are not part of the O.Carm nor are they even of Pontifical Right. As such, whether they have a valid claim to use the ancient Carmelite Rite is highly questionable.

It is true that they are not associated with either OCD or O. Carm, but they are in communion with Rome, an established Order, (albeit a small one that is fairly new) and under the authority of the Bishop of Cheyenne, and as such they are of Diocesan Right. So I would say no their use of the Carmelite Rite is not questionable, for if it were they, their Bishop, and Diocese would be under some heavy fire from Rome.

From the time of its inception, the OCD never used the ancient and venerable Carmelite Rite.

There’s no question that the congregation (it’s absolutely not an Order in the canonical sense) is legitimate. The question is about their right to use the Missale Carmelitanum. That Rite is really proprietary to the O.Carm, and if, at some point, they (a) formally become part of the “Carmelite family” and are granted (b) Pontifical Right and © given leave to use the designation O.Carm, they may well be given license to the ancient Rite as well.

As it is, though, being a congregation of Diocesan Right, I highly doubt the bishop involved cares one way or the other. The fact that the congregation is small could well mean that the issue has “slipped under Rome’s radar” so-to-speak. And then again, perhaps Rome doesn’t care one way or the other, either.

Sorry, I’m not totally familiar with all the terminology :o

The question is about their right to use the Missale Carmelitanum. That Rite is really proprietary to the O.Carm, and if, at some point, they (a) formally become part of the “Carmelite family” and are granted (b) Pontifical Right and © given leave to use the designation O.Carm, they may well be given license to the ancient Rite as well.

I would hope they are, because, as far as I know, there aren’t any O. Carm friaries/convents that use the Carmelite Rite.

As it is, though, being a congregation of Diocesan Right, I highly doubt the bishop involved cares one way or the other. The fact that the congregation is small could well mean that the issue has “slipped under Rome’s radar” so-to-speak. And then again, perhaps Rome doesn’t care one way or the other, either.

Yes, I would assume that this may be addressed soon because the congregation is on the rise (according to their website) and they’re building a new monastery.

I’ve just had a look at their website. I admit I’m not an expert on the religious life but it seems to me that they appear ‘confused’ as to whether they are mendicant friars or contemplative monks.

Until such time as they are given explicit approval by the O.Carm to do so, it seems to me the question is outstanding.

Most unfortunately, I think that is correct. :frowning: I believe there is at least one convent of O.Carm nuns that wishes to have it, but without a Carmelite priest, that isn’t even possible,

Personally, I think the ancient Carmelite Rite is beautiful, and have never been able to understand the M.O of the O.Carm when it effectively turned its back on it. Hopefully that congregation will be received into “the family” and their use if the ancient Rite will be unquestionably legitimized. :slight_smile:

Yes, I think so too. It seems that their aspiration is to revert to the more “primitive” form of the Carmelite observance, prior to their “reorganization” as mendicant friars. I can see the point, and it doesn’t much bother me. My main concern is the legitimate continuation of the ancient Rite: whether they’re mendicant friars or “monks” is secondary.

I assume then that the Carmelites didn’t start out as friars like the Franciscans and Dominicans.

Male Carmelites, O.Carm. and OCD, live in priories, not friaries.

The O.Carm. order no longer retains the right to celebrate the Carmelite Rite. In 1970 (or so) the Prior General of the Order surrendered the Rite to Rome. So without Rome returning it to us we can not celebrate it. So I do not see how this little is doing so.

The Wyoming Carmelite Monks (this is an important distinction in their name that they chose for themselves as Carmelites are friars not monks) broke away from a group of hermits that joined the O.Carm.s a number of years ago. They wanted to keep their independence rather than joining with the worldwide Carmelite Order.

Let’s not get back to that same old and tired argument that we have had innumerable times in these fora. If the O.Carm ever decides to reprise the ancient and venerable Rite, we’ll see if “Rome” refuses to “return” it. I think not.

Have a google look-up on Carmelites. That should help clarify. :slight_smile:

We started out as hermits on Mount Carmel and adopted the mendicant lifestyle when we moved into Europe.

We are active contemplitives and there has been some tension in the order in our history between these two life styles.

You may be correct but a as it stands today, we do not have the right.

I would add one further thing and then let it drop, It is our right as Carmelites to decide how to handle this.

Whatever “stands today” is immaterial, isn’t it? If the Order wants to reprise its rightful patrimony, it’s not likely that “Rome” will interfere and prevent it from happening, is it?

Yeah, let it drop. But I would also add one thing:

The ancient Carmelite Rite is a jewel that deserves to safeguarded. If the O.Carm don’t care, (and it appears that, as a group, you don’t), perhaps the Wyoming congregation is better suited to its preservation. I can only hope that they gain canonical stature to do so.

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