mass

I asked my priest yesterday at the vigil when exactly in the mass did transubstantiation occur. He replied by holding his hands up as they do when they hover their hands over the sacraments. I notice they do all this then go to the temple and remove the hosts that they are going to hand out. Have these already been changed into the body and blood? If not how have they been changed?

Bill

The Hosts reserved in the Tabernacle have already been changed into the Body and Blood of Christ at a previous Mass.

It is during the Consecration at Mass that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ when the words of Consecration are spoken.

I do not want to be the spelling or grammar Nazi, but please show some respect by capitalizing the first letter of Mass when referring to the Holy Sacrifice.

Transubstantiation occurs at the moment when the priest says, “This is My Body, and this is My Blood, ect” That is the moment when the bread and wine turn into the actual flesh of Jesus. and im not sure what you mean by temple. Did yo mean Tabernacle perhaps?

Bill, that part of the Mass is called the epiclesis, or the calling down of the Holy Spirit.

Make Holy, therefor, these gifts… Send down your Spirit like the dewfall… Or similar words are used, and the priest holds his hands above the bread and wine.

Traditional Roman Catholic belief is that transubstantiation occurs a bit later, at the words of institution - ***this is my body ***and this is the chalice of my blood. Eastern Catholic Churches have, to a greater or lesser extent, held that transubstantiation occurs at the epiclesis.

The epiclesis for me is an amazing part of the Mass. So beautiful, when the Holy Spirit is present in the Church in a very special way. The Holy Spirit was present with Mary at the annuncation to make Jesus present inside of her, and the Holy Spirit is present in the Church at the epiclisis in the same way, to Make Christ present on the altar. It is extremely beautiful, and a holy moment for me. I am always in awe.

I don’t think we can really know the exact instant when transubstantiation occurs, just like we can’t know the instant in which Christ became present inside of Mary. All we can do is believe that at some point while the priest is calling down the Holy Spirit and saying the words of institution, that it becomes the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.

-Tim-

:thumbsup:

[quote=padrepio_2012]Transubstantiation occurs at the moment when the priest says, “This is My Body, and this is My Blood, ect” That is the moment when the bread and wine turn into the actual flesh of Jesus.
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Except that, this isn’t a “moment” – it’s two moments! And, you can’t say that there’s a consecration of the ‘body’ at the words “This is my Body” and a consecration of the ‘blood’ at the words “This is my Blood”. That would mean that these are separate ‘Eucharists’ – instead, the Church teaches that every particle of the host and every drop of the Precious Blood are ‘Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity’.

On the other hand, you can’t say that there are two separate but equal consecrations.

[quote=TimH]I don’t think we can really know the exact instant when transubstantiation occurs, just like we can’t know the instant in which Christ became present inside of Mary. All we can do is believe that at some point while the priest is calling down the Holy Spirit and saying the words of institution, that it becomes the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
[/quote]

:thumbsup: This.

All we can say is that, by the end of the Eucharistic Prayer, the Eucharist is present.

If I am not mistaken, the Church does not teach that transubstantiation happens at a precise moment. At the start of the Eucharistic Prayer we know it has not happened. By the time we sing (or say) the Sanctus we know it has occurred.

:confused:

‘Mysterium fidei’, not ‘Sanctus’, you mean?

Sorry I didn’t realize it was Mass. Ok that’s how I will refer to it from now on.

What about Eucharistic writings by the popes? Pius X and John Paul II were suposed to have written on this holy sacrament. I know one thing I went to Mass and wasn’t feeling guilty. As time went on I was feeling guilty and it just lifted as Mass went on. I must’ve had some venial sins in there somewhere.

Bill

How many parts are there to this holy sacrament? I have an excellent book I’ve started to read and haven’t finished called the “7 secrets of the Eucharist” great reading.

It would have to be the end of the Canon since there is at least one rite (Chaldean/Assyrian) which has no words of consecration as we know it. I think you stated the end of the Eucharistic Prayer in your earlier post, which I tend to agree with.

I do not know what you are saying.

Venial sins are forgiven at mass. They need no confession. Does that help?

Bill

Agreed.

I confess them but that’s a personal choice.

Yes, thank you!

Also there are some other things written as to the Mass. The event of Jesus’s death and him breaking bread continually goes on. We are taken out of time and exposed to this event through a veil of such. This event exends to all realities. The mass just has to be received. And yes I would presume that would be hell or hells too. Of course every event is continually happening but this is precious to us. Aquinus wrote that god wants more than anything else us to be just like him and that’s all creation. Remember Jesus said make me one with you and make them too one with you.

Bill

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