Massachusetts Elementary School to Distribute Condoms to Students

I would guess, not long. Kids have been increasingly sexualized at younger and younger ages. They are being sexualized in order to normalize the idea of adults having sex with them.

Of course from the religious perspective this is appalling, but even still, if you only look at the law side of it - how can it be legal to distribute such materials to a MINOR without the consent of a guardian??? Story below :frowning:

cnn.com/2010/US/06/24/massachusetts.school.condoms/index.html?hpt=Sbin

i think what is making it so over the top is that people are taking it to the extreme. Are 1st graders going to come in asking for condoms? I would say no. At the same time do you want a 15 year old to come in, answer questions that show they are definitely sexually active and be told they can’t have them because they are too young? I’ve been in classrooms where there were pregnant 13 year olds.

You could tell them to stop and begin living a chaste life, because it is the right message to give to our kids. And begin that message of respect and dignity early on, so that they all know it by age 13.

Giving out condoms is essentially saying that we acknowledge that you are sexually active, and as long as you are, we as your mentors will teach you how to dissociate authentic procreative and unitive marital purposes from your sexual activity. Because that’s what we, your wise elders, have learned to do. Pay no attention to the social and psychological mess that America is in; it is just a temporary nuisance that will go away when we achieve ultimate sexual permissiveness of any and every variety. Trust us, we are your teachers.

In reality, giving out condoms is just another lie (contraception) to cover up the first lie that sex, originally intended within the confines of marriage, is just another expression of self in any context one chooses. There is only one word to describe this – abomination. Make no mistake about it, those responsible for this proliferation of abuses will pay, and pay dearly, in this life and the next. I pray for their souls, as anticipation of the reality of their plight gives me no sense of righteousness or satisfaction whatsoever.

For the schools to dispel such lies via moral instruction would be rather difficult and controversial considering the diversity of moral opinion in America. You may not appreciate that condoms are being handed out but others may not appreciate the promotion of the idea of sex being immoral unless ordered towards a procreative end. How is a public institution supposed to engage in moral instruction when its citizens and constituents are bitterly divided over what morality is?

I don’t, by the way, have anything resembling a good answer to this question. It is a perennial difficulty in my thoughts.

Parents are the God-given guardians of children who alone decide what they are taught and handed in schools, not the state, and not the teacher’s union, and not the professional educrats, and not the politicians, and not the advocates, and not the activists, and not the judges, and not the churches.

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This is not particularly practical considering the contemporary American home life and workplace. For parents to be the sole guardians of knowledge would require a return to more or less universal homeschooling.

Contemporary American life often makes this unwieldy or even impossible and so most families rely on state educators–what are those educators to do when some of their ward’s parents want one thing and some want another?

All I can say is thank God I do not live in Massachusetts. They have gone off the deep end again!

As a self-proclaimed atheist, you may not believe in God, heaven or hell. But you will when you die. Even if you don’t believe in God now, though, you cannot help but see the obvious tangible good that would come from the practice of moral and chaste behavior. Imagine - no STDs, no need for Pap tests, authentic discernment for the vocation of marriage leading to stronger marriages and families, much less divorce, fewer single parent families, etc. etc. So what is standing in the way of such a great good, that takes practically no money to teach or practice? Only our own stubborn desire to do stuff we know we should not do. And we spend out lives trying to convince ourselves that it is OK to do these things (which is, incidently, why moral opinion is so diverse), in spite of the wake of destruction, disease and suffering we leave behind us.

Lieutenant, I’m not so naive to think that we can cure all this with a shot of morality. But we should not pretend that the sense of right behavior is just something that can be ignored, like one’s appendix, or 12th rib. It is what makes us human, above the animals, and it should be defended.

I don’t particularly have any way to comment on the assertion that I will believe in God when I die–I certainly do not think that is the case and you certainly do and I don’t think either of us is going to persuade each other in this thread.

You are largely right about the possibility of moral benefit but the difficulty is in implementing a moral system when there is so much disagreement about morality. Nations are typically pluralistic; they contain a multitude of peoples with a multitude of conflicting ideas of morality. How is society to sort out and rely on a single moral system when there are so many competing systems, each with ardent defenders? This issue is not limited to sexual ethics either–there is just as much disagreement over, say, the morality of illegal immigration. Or the morality of education regarding evolution. Etc etc etc.

In short, my issue is this: how can a pluralistic society arrive at a single and effective moral system when it contains a multitude of competing and mutually-exclusive proposed systems?

I know. But I just thought I’d warn you anyway. But if you wish to remain an atheist, I would definitely not look into any Catholic theology, philosophy, sanctioned accounts of apparitions witnessed by saints, or exorcisms, or critical reviews thereof. I slipped up, and here I am, a closed-minded, non-freethinking Catholic. Stay a long ways away from that stuff, it sucks you in like quicksand, and it starts making sense.

You are largely right about the possibility of moral benefit but the difficulty is in implementing a moral system when there is so much disagreement about morality. Nations are typically pluralistic; they contain a multitude of peoples with a multitude of conflicting ideas of morality. How is society to sort out and rely on a single moral system when there are so many competing systems, each with ardent defenders? This issue is not limited to sexual ethics either–there is just as much disagreement over, say, the morality of illegal immigration. Or the morality of education regarding evolution. Etc etc etc.

In short, my issue is this: how can a pluralistic society arrive at a single and effective moral system when it contains a multitude of competing and mutually-exclusive proposed systems?

Yeah, in a word, I don’t know either. But my goals, as a Catholic, are not limited to the creation of a peaceful society on earth. It is not primarily that we can’t all agree on the system (although you are right, we can’t). It’s that I can recognize the spiritual element in the struggle for peace, the powers of good vs. the powers of evil if you will, and this struggle just doesn’t end. I know this sounds kooky to you, but for example when you see efforts to silence and discredit the pope that are so out of proportion to the apparent threat (threat?) posed by him, you kinda start wondering, what’s up?

Good questions though. Wish I could steer you in a direction toward answers you can accept. I tried too, but never found any. Maybe you’ll be more fortunate.

Well, I appreciate the warning but rest assured I have had plenty of exposure. :wink: I was Catholic for most of my life until I reached a point where faith was certainly not a working possibility for me. Hence why I can sympathize with your desire to see a more Catholic-ethical society. I used to be the same way.

Yeah, in a word, I don’t know either. But my goals, as a Catholic, are not limited to the creation of a peaceful society on earth. It is not primarily that we can’t all agree on the system (although you are right, we can’t). It’s that I can recognize the spiritual element in the struggle for peace, the powers of good vs. the powers of evil if you will, and this struggle just doesn’t end. I know this sounds kooky to you, but for example when you see efforts to silence and discredit the pope that are so out of proportion to the apparent threat (threat?) posed by him, you kinda start wondering, what’s up?

Good questions though. Wish I could steer you in a direction toward answers you can accept. I tried too, but never found any. Maybe you’ll be more fortunate.

Not having answers is perfectly alright–I don’t think perfect answers even necessarily exist. Still, I think it’s worthwhile to try and see what we can do anyways. As for kooky sounding stuff? It always just strikes me as people having an irrational fear/antagonism of religion. People tend to either be bitter towards it for all the wrong reasons or be ignorantly fearful of it for again all the wrong reasons. It really isn’t much of a “threat” at all for a reasonably well-informed and well-adjusted secular atheist. There are a lot worse things in the world than the Catholic Church to say the very least.

Thanks for all the responses :slight_smile: I STILL don’t agree with this at all!!! Someone who is not religious for example, has the right to not have religion forced onto their child at school, they have the right to say NO, or send them to a public school. How then do religious people, or those who just don’t agree with this, not have the same right to refuse this **** being forced onto their children!!! It’s one thing for people to cry out “freedom, freedom, we have rights, you can’t force religion, morals, values…etc on us”, but when it comes to it being the other way around they say “but children have the right to these things!!! It is for their own good!” hmmmm, now couldn’t we say that about religion? :hmmm: Sorry, but if you want “freedom”, it goes BOTH ways!!! We can’t force things onto your kids, DON’T force them on ours!!!:mad:

*oh and for the record, because I can’t seem to go anywhere without hearing about condoms, condoms, condoms, birth control being so “necessary” and the “crisis” in places with limited or no birth control…SOCIETY EXISTED WITHOUT BIRTH CONTROL AND CONDOMS UP UNTIL NOW!!! Why is it so “necessary” NOW? Well obviously because it provides a nice, easy way to indulge ourselves with no restraint in the pleasures we have a “right” to and because those who make such birth controls make loads of $$$! Ahhh, but this shouldn’t be a surprise:thumbsup:

I left Mass. in '61 and never looked back, even then the state was a cesspool of graft and corruption. It’s pretty amazing how far to the left a state founded by far right pilgrims has drifted!

is it not Mass. a very Catholic state? what happened?

This is a fight between evil and good.

there is only one choice, choose good and good can only come from One God.

It is the power of money that is ruling our world. these companies wanting to succeed and profit push for the sale of condoms. they come with all kinds of data and studies to prove their point.

these scientific studies are very dangerous in our society. these studies are ruling our minds and souls. whatever they say people believe and follow.

now and days everything is done according with someone says based on their studies. it is never about what God says. let’s open our eyes to the reality of our world.

one evil after another. when one doesnt succeed, they will come up with another one to fix the first wrong, but they are doing with another wrong.

YOu do so by keeping the largest number of people safe(er) and on track to become productive citizens. I could tell all the 15 year olds in the world to be chaste, but in all of recorded history that hasn’t worked and it’s not going to now. At the same time, I do not, and will not, pat 14, 15, and 16 year olds on the head when they are pregnant and tell them it’s okay and they did nothing wrong and treat it like it’s not big deal.

Except that the law and I would imagine the large majority of Americans would agree that 12 year olds and under (which is the age of elementary students) cannot consent to sex.

What would it be that they did wrong…have pre-marital sex…or have “unsafe” premarital sex?

And what happens if they use the condoms and the condoms fail?

It’s possible to teach kids to be chaste, but the teaching has to be started early, taught consistently, and continually reinforced (especially at home). You can’t teach abstinence once in a 1-hour session in 6th grade and consider it good. This is where many abstinence programs fail.

Handing out contraception is not the answer. That’s just encouraging kids to have what they consider to be “safe” sex, but all contraception has a failure rate, and all it does is encourage kids to play the odds. More sex = more chances of more contraception failure = more teen pregnancies. I rarely hear of a teen pregnancy nowadays that resulted from wholly unprotected sex. Usually, it’s something like, “Well, I was on the Pill” or “we used a condom.”

We can never do evil that good may result (cf. Romans 8:3).

If this was happening in my kids’ school, I’d be withdrawing them immediately and finding some way to homeschool.

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