Matthew 7:21

(Objection: Our actions are of no consequence; Jesus did all that’s necessary for our salvation.)

7:21 “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

We must do the will of the Father to enter heaven. Professing Jesus as Lord isn’t enough. Even those that work miracles by the name of Jesus and who preach the Gospel in His name are not assured a place in heaven. Through false teachings, the devil has convinced many people today that they have a “free ticket” to heaven. This is NOT biblical and those who believe this theology are in jeopardy of losing their salvation.

How about the Father who told his two sons to go and work in the field. One said, “Sure” but never got around to it. One said, “Forget it”, but then changed his mind and went to work in the field.

Jesus praises the second one, the one full of “works”.

NotWorthy

[quote=NotWorthy]How about the Father who told his two sons to go and work in the field. One said, “Sure” but never got around to it. One said, “Forget it”, but then changed his mind and went to work in the field.

Jesus praises the second one, the one full of “works”.

NotWorthy
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Talk is cheap and the human heart fickle. :wink:

There are some great analogies on Matthew 7:21. The father = God the Father; The Son = Jesus

The one who said sure then did not do it - the Pharisees
The second that said no then did it - repenters
The collection of people from all walks of life collected to fill the wedding table - the Church!

The poor guy thrown out without a wedding garb - those that will not be allowed into Heaven at judgment day

GREAT parable!

[quote=E.E.N.S.]Talk is cheap and the human heart fickle. :wink:
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I always thought that the Last Judgment scene was one of the strongest bible stories for works… at least the corporal works of mercy. Of course, this site characterizes them as “The seven practices of charity toward our neighbor.”

Would it be correct to say that works of the law are useless (a la ephesians) and yet that works of love have some value?

[size=1]Mt 25:34 “Then the King will say to those at his right hand, ’Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, ’Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?’ And the king will answer them, ’Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of my brethren, you did it to me.’”
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Matthew 7:21 (New International Version)
21"Not all people who sound religious are really godly. They may refer to me as `Lord,’ but they still won’t enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The decisive issue is whether they obey my Father in heaven.

What is being talked about here is that God looks at our hearts and our TRUE devotion to Him. We can say with our lips that Jesus is Lord but it only matters what our hearts think. If you are a TRUE believer you will do the Will of God. It’s inevitable. Your works is the fruit of your faith. If you have TRUE faith you will have good works. But those good works DO NOT SAVE YOU.

Romans 3:19-24 (New Living Translation)
19Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses and to bring the entire world into judgment before God. 20For no one can ever be made right in God’s sight by doing what his law commands. For the more we know God’s law, the clearer it becomes that we aren’t obeying it.

Christ Took Our Punishment
21 But now God has shown us a different way of being right in his sight–not by obeying the law but by the way promised in the Scriptures long ago.*** 22 We are made right in God’s sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done.***
23 For all have sinned; all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (New Living Translation)
8God saved you by his special favor when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.

Romans 5:1 (New Living Translation)
1Therefore, since we have been made right in God’s sight by faith, we have peace with God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us.

Galatians 3:6 (New Living Translation)
6In the same way, “Abraham believed God, so God declared him righteous because of his faith.”

Ephesians 2:5 (New Living Translation)
5that even while we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s special favor that you have been saved!)

Ephesians 3:7 (New Living Translation)
7By God’s special favor and mighty power, I have been given the wonderful privilege of serving him by spreading this Good News.

Philippians 3:9 (New Living Translation)
9and become one with him. I no longer count on my own goodness or my ability to obey God’s law, but I trust Christ to save me. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith.

Titus 2:11 (New Living Translation)
11For the grace of God has been revealed, bringing salvation to all people.

Titus 3:7 (New Living Translation)
7He declared us not guilty because of his great kindness. And now we know that we will inherit eternal life.

1 Timothy 1:14 (New Living Translation)
14Oh, how kind and gracious the Lord was! He filled me completely with faith and the love of Christ Jesus.

[quote=Singinbeauty]If you have TRUE faith you will have good works. But those good works DO NOT SAVE YOU.
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But do you deny that we will be judged according to our works?

(I hope not.)

Consider this…

John 14:11-13 (New Living Translation)
11Just believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or at least believe because of what you have seen me do.

12"**The truth is, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father.** 13You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, because the work of the Son brings glory to the Father.  

Jesus said this. “ANYONE who believes in me will do the same works I have done…”

Yes, we are judged on our works because they are the REFLECTION of our faith. So in essence we are judged on our works. Those works in which we have done and will do are the fruit of the faith that we carry. If you have a strong TRUE faith then you will have good works.

Consider also…

Matthew 9:18-26 (New Living Translation)
18As Jesus was saying this, the leader of a synagogue came and knelt down before him. “My daughter has just died,” he said, "but you can bring her back to life again if you just come and lay your hand upon her."
19As Jesus and the disciples were going to the official’s home, 20a woman who had had a hemorrhage for twelve years came up behind him. She touched the fringe of his robe, 21for she thought, “If I can just touch his robe, I will be healed.”

22Jesus turned around and said to her, "Daughter, be encouraged! Your faith has made you well." And the woman was healed at that moment.
23When Jesus arrived at the official's home, he noticed the noisy crowds and heard the funeral music. 24He said, "Go away, for the girl isn't dead; she's only asleep." But the crowd laughed at him. 25When the crowd was finally outside, Jesus went in and took the girl by the hand, and she stood up! 26The report of this miracle swept through the entire countryside.

The woman, especially, who had a illness that she had dealt with for 12yrs was healed because of her faith. Not the good or bad she had done.

[quote=Singinbeauty]Consider this…

Jesus said this. “ANYONE who believes in me will do the same works I have done…”

Yes, we are judged on our works because they are the REFLECTION of our faith. So in essence we are judged on our works. Those works in which we have done and will do are the fruit of the faith that we carry. If you have a strong TRUE faith then you will have good works.

Consider also…

The woman, especially, who had a illness that she had dealt with for 12yrs was healed because of her faith. Not the good or bad she had done.
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None the less, we must, as St. Paul says, “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” because we know not the hour which the Lord will come for us and we know that according to our works we will be judged.

[quote=E.E.N.S.]None the less, we must, as St. Paul says, “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” because we know not the hour which the Lord will come for us and we know that according to our works we will be judged.
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Please let me know the verse reference for this.

As I have stated before… Yes, our works will be judged but not in the way that MOST catholics view it. Our works will be judged for our faith. If we have TRUE faith then our works will reflect this. As Jesus Christ stated in the verse I quoted above (John 14:12) that those who believe in Him will do the same works as He has done. And since we know Jesus to be perfect and holy then that logic follows that the works we do that are the same as His will be holy. Therefore, the faith that we have will bring on the works that Jesus required of us. It’s inevitable as I have said before. So by our TRUE faith we are judged because of the fruits (works) it brings forth. :slight_smile:

Catholics just deny that you can be saved by faith alone and this is pretty much the whole point of the thread, you cant have just a mental assent to believe and that is it. You have to live a Christian life, and it is not automatic. It is not like we are robots and when we have faith we are compelled beyond our free will. Or just having faith acting pius and not having love, that is wrong also.

Anyone who lives a Christian life knows how hard it is not to sin, to be kind and love even your enemies. That is part of living your faith in love.

If you are saying that you believe that we need faith and works we do too, if you say that we need faith but not works that is what we disagree with.

We need faith working through love.

Your brother in Christ
Scylla

Haven’t I said throughout this WHOLE thread that through faith comes the works? Yes, faith is dead without works because that would mean that the faith you have is not TRUE faith. Because you can’t have TRUE faith without the good works coming as the fruit of it. It IS hard to live a true christian life. Believe me, I KNOW. But because of my TRUE faith I am driven to live a life that Christ would approve of. Does this make sense? You can’t deny that if you have TRUE faith you can ignore the Holy Spirit when it demands that you do something. You can try but I doubt it’s very easy to ignore. In fact I know it isn’t easy.

[quote=Singinbeauty]Haven’t I said throughout this WHOLE thread that through faith comes the works? Yes, faith is dead without works because that would mean that the faith you have is not TRUE faith. Because you can’t have TRUE faith without the good works coming as the fruit of it. It IS hard to live a true christian life. Believe me, I KNOW. But because of my TRUE faith I am driven to live a life that Christ would approve of. Does this make sense? You can’t deny that if you have TRUE faith you can ignore the Holy Spirit when it demands that you do something. You can try but I doubt it’s very easy to ignore. In fact I know it isn’t easy.
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Singin’,

If any Catholic has told you that he is saved by his works alone then he is a heretic, or not well informed about his faith. Catholic teaching states that our works are to reflect our faith. Sometimes, language confuses people. OSAS people would interpret this as to meaning that Catholics believe that they are saved by their works. We are not saved by our works. Our faith is our ‘works’. We are ultimately judged in/out of the Grace of God and God alone is our Judge. Salvation is by God’s Grace alone (not the sola gratia understanding, though), no human merits salvation in his own name or by his own works.

It’s all about how well we cooperate with the grace we are given. Choosing to cooperate with grace is how we come to faith and good works.

Read Matt. 25:14-46

First, notice the parable. What happens to the guy who chooses not to put into action what the master has given him?

Then, after the parable, notice how Jesus decides who will go to Heaven and who will not.

[quote=Genesis315]It’s all about how well we cooperate with the grace we are given.
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Exactly.

Beautiful!
So you then believe just like Catholics on being saved by Gods Grace by faith working through love.

The whole thing though is there are very many Christians who deny this and say that you are saved by faith alone, sin doesn’t matter, or anything I do doesn’t matter, we don’t need to even respect other people etc…I am still saved.

This the the extreme that some people get to. If we don’t live Christian lives, not only do we risk salvation, we are a scandal to Christianity.

Well, I got to go watch Life on the Rock on EWTN,
Good Night!

God Bless
Scylla

Hello All,

It all boils down to free will. Is it God who is forcing works though faith upon us or is it we who are choosing obedience and good works which is faith and belief in Jesus. Do we not put faith and belief in Jesus by doing what He teaches us to do to go to heaven rather than simply believing Jesus is Lord?

NAB JOH 3:36

Whoever believes in the Son has life eternal. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God.NAB LUK 8:13

Those on the rocky ground are the ones who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. They have no root; **they believe **for a while, but fall away in time of temptation.NAB JOH 12:44

Jesus proclaimed aloud: “Whoever puts faith in me believes not so much in me as in him who sent me; and whoever looks on me is seeing him who sent me. I have come to the world as its light, to keep anyone who **believes **in me from remaining in the dark. If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I am not the one to condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words already has his judge, namely, the word I have spoken it is that which will condemn him on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to speak. Since I know that his commandment means eternal life, whatever I say is spoken just as he instructed me.”

NAB SIR 15:11 Man’s Free Will.

Say not: “It was God’s doing that I fell away”; for what he hates he does not do. Say not: “It was he who set me astray”; for he has no need of wicked man. Abominable wickedness the LORD hates, he does not let it befall those who fear him. When God, in the beginning, created man, he made him subject to his own free choice. If you choose you can keep the commandments; it is loyalty to do his will. There are set before you fire and water; to whichever you choose, stretch forth your hand. Before man are life and death, whichever he chooses shall be given him.

NAB MAT 19:16

“Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?” He answered, "Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

[quote=Singinbeauty]Please let me know the verse reference for this.

As I have stated before… Yes, our works will be judged but not in the way that MOST catholics view it. Our works will be judged for our faith. If we have TRUE faith then our works will reflect this. As Jesus Christ stated in the verse I quoted above (John 14:12) that those who believe in Him will do the same works as He has done. And since we know Jesus to be perfect and holy then that logic follows that the works we do that are the same as His will be holy. Therefore, the faith that we have will bring on the works that Jesus required of us. It’s inevitable as I have said before. So by our TRUE faith we are judged because of the fruits (works) it brings forth. :slight_smile:
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Philippians 2:12-16 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Do all things without grumbling or questioning, that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain.

This is not a suggestion that we can do anything to merit heaven. Catholics do not believe we can earn our way to heaven. What we do believe is that we can make ourselves either available or unavailable to God’s redeeming grace through a combination of our belief and our efforts.

The way we understand this verse is coupled with how we understand human Free Will, and reject OSAS. Paul does not offer anyone a certainty of salvation. Instead he tells us to always make ourselves open and available to God.

Paul clarifies in the next section:

*Philippians 2:8-14 Indeed I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as refuse, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own, based on law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith; that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that if possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. **Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own; but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. *

Note the subtlety here: Paul says Christ has ALREADY claimed him, but he is still hoping to attain the resurrection “if possible.”

[quote=Singinbeauty]Please let me know the verse reference for this.

As I have stated before… Yes, our works will be judged but not in the way that MOST catholics view it. Our works will be judged for our faith. If we have TRUE faith then our works will reflect this. As Jesus Christ stated in the verse I quoted above (John 14:12) that those who believe in Him will do the same works as He has done. And since we know Jesus to be perfect and holy then that logic follows that the works we do that are the same as His will be holy. Therefore, the faith that we have will bring on the works that Jesus required of us. It’s inevitable as I have said before. So by our TRUE faith we are judged because of the fruits (works) it brings forth. :slight_smile:
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But you cannot discount that your works will determine your outcome (they do not save you, only grace does this, but depending on your works done in charity through faith you will be judged.)

To give you the reference to St. Paul saying “work out your salvation with fear and trembling” is found in Phil 2:12 “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

Philippians 2:12-16 (New Living Translation)
12Dearest friends, you were always so careful to follow my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away you must be even more careful to put into action God’s saving work in your lives, obeying God with deep reverence and fear. **13For God is working in you, giving you the DESIRE to obey him ** and the power to do what pleases him.
14In everything you do, stay away from complaining and arguing, 15so that no one can speak a word of blame against you. You are to live clean, innocent lives as children of God in a dark world full of crooked and perverse people. Let your lives shine brightly before them. 16Hold tightly to the word of life, so that when Christ returns, I will be proud that I did not lose the race and that my work was not useless.

Somehow I think we are on the same page but I see it a bit differently than some of you. See, I don’t see that the sin that we commit as dangerous to our salvation AS LONG AS we counteract it with repentance. Once we repent to God for our sins it is done away with. But if we don’t care to repent and don’t do what is right then our hearts aren’t right with God and our ‘faith’ that we claim is FALSE. It’s useless. God views it as lukewarm and He doesn’t appreciate that.

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