Medjugorje in church?

Hi.

Today I went to a communion / rosary service, to which I have never been before, to celebrate the Immculate conception, . It was led by our deacon, at least, I think he was the deacon. When we got to the Rosary everyone was given a sheet on which were two quotes from “Our Lady of Medjugorje.” I was asked if I was familiar with the apparition, and told them that I didn’t believe it as it was not approved. I did not raise the other issues which make me sceptical of it, as it was not appropriate. The deacon said that it would be approved, when the apparitions stopped. We also read from a book containing the alleged locutions of an Italian priest, Father Guppy – who I can’t find any information on.
After every decade of the rosary a different part of the text from Medjugorje was read. The church also has a small gift shop, where pictures of the apparition are sold, and a few months ago a planned pilgrimage there was announced in the church bulletin.
Since Medjugorje is unapproved and unlikely to be so, and has been criticized by the Pope, should I raise the issue with my priest?

I don’t know why your parish did not offer Mass today since it is a holy day of obligation. It is a custom in some parishes to have adoration or holy hour after Mass, perhaps with a rosary, at least around here. I wonder if the reading was from a book of so-called “locutions” (alleged messages from Mary) published by Fr. Gobbi. He has no connection with Medjugore but many people who are attracted to those alleged appearances and messages also belong to rosary cenacle prayer groups attached to Fr. Gobbi’s organization, the Marian Movement for Priests, which has been discussed on this forum in the past. It would be worthwhile to simply ask the pastor about this, as perhaps he did not know what the deacon and those organizing the event were planning.

Yes, it was Fr. Gobbi! I couldn’ quite hear the name when he said it. About the mass: I’m assuming you’re in the US - I’m in the UK and here it is not a day of obligation. I thought it was, and thought I was going to mass.

Today is a Holy Day of obligation in the UK.My parish offered Mass at 7.30pm
I cannot comment on your parish however.
Regarding what happened at the ‘communion/rosary service’ led by someone
you “think” is the deacon?
I take from this you don’t visit your parish very often? Or you are not a regular Mass attender?Or how do you not recognise your deacon?

Forgive me if I am wrong,I dont mean to offend. Our parish has one priest and a deacon is shared within a larger area.I know all my parish very well (clergy and laity)as I regularly attend and therefore recognise them.

If you have any concerns raise them with your priest.

It’s ok. I converted about 6 months ago and my parents are divorced. I do attend mass every week, but have to alternate between 2 churches depending on who I’m staying with. Also, we have 4 priests who have a sort of mass / confession rota, so I don’t know them very well. As for the “Deacon”, I have glimpsed him at mass but never spoken to him. Forgive me, as I am a new convert I’m not very knowledgable about roles and titles.

Firstly welcome to the Catholic Church!!

I am sorry your parish did’nt appear to celebrate mass today.Perhaps you could chat to your priest about medjugorje and about Holy days of obligation and masses etc.
God bless you for doing the right thing in attending for mass.
I hope your priest can shed some light on both these things for you.Also buy a Catholic diary it costs £1.00 and will have all Holy days of obligation printed in them.Each parish sells these diaries in England.God bless you
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The Bishop of the Diocese in which Medjugorje is located has REPEATEDLY said that there is nothing supernatural, and no priest is allowed to lead pilgrimages or public devotions there in honor of the supposed apparitions.

Why is this deacon introducing devotions which the Bishop involved has not approved?

However, it’s possible that a priest just couldn’t be obtained for this time at which Mass was originally going to be celebrated–maybe there was a serious pastoral emergency?–and that’s why a Deacon lead a Communion Service and Rosary: so the faithful would not be deprived of the Holy Gifts or prayer on the Feast-day.

Pope John Paul II said even Priests can lead private Pilgrimages
to Medjugorje. He has left Medjugorje to further discernment.

All I know so far, is the fruit of Medjugorje messages is a
great genuine peace, forgivness of each other in the community there,
and a greater love of Jesus there.

Authorities in the Church have disapproved of such
Marian Apparitions in Lourde and Fatima while they
were going on. Medjugorje is longer lived, and still
going on. Eventually, the Church will either accept
or reject the Apparitions.

O Lord, thank you for Your Peace - Shalom for
the faithful, those of good will being led by the Father;
to fight for souls; and aid the heartbreaking condition off the preborn, sick, starving,
suffering, and persecuted for Your Namesake.

O Glorious God The Father, who alone knows the times and the seasons;
How long O Lord until Jesus Returns in Glory?

in Jesus and Mary,
-Joe
Possible Redemptive Mysteries of The Most Holy Rosary
The Hungersite

Because Medjugorie is not approved it is against forum rules to discuss the “alleged apparitions/messages”.

However what you say is incorrect.

Three Bishops Commissions have investigated and declared there is NO evidence of any supernatural happenings there and went further by stating the “visionaries” are fakes.
The CDF (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) in Rome took over and one of their first actions was to suspend a priest at the centre of the alleged apparitions.

Previously when our present Pope was still Cardinal Ratzinger he said Medjugorie was a hoax and he confirmed that favourable comments about Medjugorie allegedly attributed to Pope John Paul II were in fact never made by him.

While private individuals are of course free to travel anywhere they wish, pilgrimages to Medjugorie led by priests are NOT permitted.

Forgive me, I did not mean to break the rules.

Peace of Jesus,
-Joe

You can check out Holy days of obligation in England & Wales here

The feast of the Immaculate conception is not a Holy day of obligation in England & Wales.

God Bless.

Be that as it may, it should raise concerns if a Service in the Church,
would set as its focus any private revelation that has not been
Approved by the Church like Fatima. The World Fatima Prayer,
which included a Holy Mass, recently was so beautiful; and
I think 100 million or so participated at least in part; sometimes
Approved private revelations really help lead people to CHRIST.
It certainly avoids the danger of chasing signs and wonders by
focusing on Prayer. Non condemned, unapproved revelations have
no place in Official Services and Liturgy; Pope Paul VI certainly would not approve of a
Catholic Faith Community bringing them into the Church’s official worship.

Yes, you are correct they cannot be led by Priests. But Priests are free
to go on pilgrimages. I meant to post in my reply, that I have carefully
researched this issue, forgive my blunder. It is noteworthy that Pope John Paul II gave
Fr. Jozo his Apostolic Blessing. This, of course, does not approve or
disprove the private revelations.

I will not discuss unapproved private revelations in these forums;
I do not have the time, anyway. There are so many things we
have to do in our ‘life is a prayer,’ to give The Good News.

And I certainly understand the rule; so many have too much of
an emotional reaction they spend their time arguing about them,
which could be better spent in prayer or being joyful in Christ with
family and friends; or other prayerful and corporal acts of kindness,
and mercy.

Peace of Christ,
Joe
Jesus Loves the faithful, all being led by the Father,
and hears the cries of the poor, like the preborn.
O Lord, give us strength!

I do not think your church should have been advancing Medjugorje information. Here is an article in full from the Dec. 2009 Catholic World Report:

*In a homily posted on his diocesan website, Bishop Ratko Peric, who has led the Diocese of Mostar-Duvno since 1993, has emphasized that the alleged apparitions and messages of Medjugorje are not to be treated as “worthy of faith.” The bishop has imposed a series of restrictions on activities in Medjugorje, clearly designed to discourage interest in the supposed apparitions.

“Brothers and sisters, let us not act as if these ‘apparitions’ were recognized and worthy of faith,” he said. “If, as Catholics, devoted sons and daughters of the Church, we want to live according to the norms and the teaching of the Church, glorifying the Holy Trinity, venerating Blessed Mary … and professing all the Church has established in the creed, we do not turn to certain alternative ‘apparitions’ or ‘messages’ to which the Church has not attributed any supernatural character.”

Bishop Peric has also written to the parish priests of Medjugorje, reminding them of a series of restrictions. The priests have been instructed not to identify the site of the alleged apparitions as a “shrine,” not to promote events connected with the apparitions, and not to include the “seers” in parish activities. The prayers and messages connected with the alleged apparitions are not to be printed in the parish bulletin, nor used in parish prayer services; the priests are not to comment on them. Priests who come to Medjurgorje from outside the diocese are not to hold conferences or retreats without the bishop’s permission, and any priest who visits the parish is required to provide proof that he has proper faculties from his own bishop before celebrating Mass there.

While millions of pilgrims have visited Medjugorje in the past 20 years, the reported visits by the Virgin Mary and the messages relayed by the “seers” have never been endorsed by the Catholic hierarchy. However, while local bishops have shown their skepticism and even open disapproval of the reports from Medjugorje, the Vatican has not yet isued a statement addressing their validity. Bosnian Cardinal Vinko Puljic has indicated that he expects a Vatican statement on the alleged Marian apparitions, probably before the end of 2009.*Article can also be read here (except the last paragraph which I typed in from CWR magazine)

Hello …poodle,

The reason you can’t find reference on that priest is because you are probably referring to Fr. Stefano Gobbi.

Hope this helps.

You mean, the same Pope John Paul II who gave that same Apostolic Blessing to the golddigging, pederast Father (spiritually and carnally) Marcial Maciel?

the Pope can give a blessing to anyone… it’s not a sin to give a blessing

maybe we should be careful about criticizing the Holy Father?!?!

why don’t we instead mention that Pope JPII had a great devotion to Our Lady of Fatima, that he approved the Divine Mercy message, tried to be a peacemaker, upheld Catholic moral teachings, etc.

Totally agree with Monica

The last two posts are red herrings. Let me clarify:

The point ElijahSpirit was trying to make was that giving Fr. Jozo the Apostolic Blessing seemed to be an indication that JP2 may have believed in the apparitions in Medjugorje. However, I was trying to point out that JP2 also believed in Fr. Maciel, but that he was wrong about him too. If he could be wrong about Maciel, he could be wrong about Medjugorje.

One of the arguments in favour of Medjugorje is that JP2 believed it. My point is that this is a poor argument (maybe even a non-argument, at least since the Maciel scandal broke), as his judgment is just one of many - infallibility does not cover personal belief on alleged apparitions.

My point was not to slam JP2, but was to oppose this argument. I understand the reason the red herring was used - you love JP2. So do I, but I don’t believe his every decision or judgment was beyond criticism. I realize this could be followed by another red herring, such as “don’t be more Catholic than the Pope” or “let’s focus on his good qualities”, but first please acknowledge the argument I was trying to make, and that you responded through a red herring, and then we can talk about my unfortunate “Pope bashing” - preferably in another thread as this one is about Medjugorje.

As you see, red herrings, besides being fallacious, have the tendency to get us off topic.

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