Medjugorje: The Church's Position


#1

The promoters of Medjugorje (i.e. the “seers” and their spiritual directors) are aggressively promoting “The Gospa” in blatant and direct disobedience to two successive Bishops of Mostar, and to three Church Commissions, all of whom say “constat de non supernaturalitate!”

The teachings of “The Gospa” are spreading like a disease, infecting parishes all over the world, and causing local schisms amongst the faithful! I live in Oregon, and the ladies who recently formed a “Medjugorje Upper Room Prayer Group” refuse to associate with me because I disagree with them and because I agree with Bishop Ratko Peric, and with the Church! “Our Lady of Medjugorje” is sereptiously dissolving “unity” and “oneness” of belief. I hope and pray that the Pope puts and end to this madness.

If we don’t obey ecclesiastical authority, we place ourselves in proximity to schism. Why take the chance? If you wish intercession, stick with the approved sites, such as Fatima and Lourdes! Don’t pray to “Our Lady of Medjugorje” or to her nickname, “The Gospa,” as there is a good chance you’re praying to something that doesn’t exist, or worse … to Old Scratch.

I say this because I LOVE the Church and I LOVE my fellow Catholics and I want us all to attain salvation! Please, please, be careful with this one! Please hear the counterarguments:

Here’s my documentation:

From Bishop Peric’s website: cbismo.hr/ (site’s been down today)
Same document is recopied here, written in 2004: mdaviesonmedj.com/page_lateststatement.htm

And another statement from Peric as of 2004:
mdaviesonmedj.com/page_truthfrees.htm

And an interview with Bishop Peric (You have to register at website to read article. It’s free):
catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=237

A letter from Peric to the Ordinary of Medjugorje (You have to register at website to view article. It’s free):
catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=317

“Regarding Medjugorje” By Bishop Henri Brincard: (You have to register at website to read article. It’s free).
catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=4314


#2

It is my understanding that the people running this forum do not allow discussion of unapproved apparitions. That said, I do not understand why you would be upset. The Blessed Virgin Mary is the Blessed Virgin Mary. It doesn’t make any difference if you’re praying to Our Lady of Fatima or Our Lady of Lourdes. You are still praying to the same person. If you call her Our Lady of Medjugorje, you are still praying to her.

I have personally traveled to Medjugorje and found the experience very uplifting. There was a Mass every hour in a different language even during the week. The church was so packed you could hardly get near it. They had an unbelievable number of confessionals there, and the lines were extremely long. While Ivan was having his apparition up on Apparition Hill, hundreds of people were up there, sitting on the jagged rocks, and praying the rosary aloud in many different languages. Just hearing these people praying the rosary was such an uplifting experience that it really didn’t matter if Ivan’s apparition was real or not (I have no reason to believe that he’s lying).

On the mountain that translates as “Cross Hill,” you come to the Stations of the Cross. It makes the Stations of the Cross a lot more meaningful when you have to climb a rugged mountain to get to the next station.

Besides all of that, this is a beautiful place with a lot of personality. We had the best meals, with a lot of fresh vegetables from their gardens. A pitcher of red wine was always sitting on the table. It was made from the grapes they grew. There were chickens running around outside and many patios that were made of beautiful marble. I remember lying in my bed, smelling the food, and feeling so peaceful that it was like my Mom was in the kitchen preparing a meal (Mom is deceased).

The Church might not have approved of these apparitions, but my understanding is that the apparitions have to stop before the Church can go through the official approval process.


#3

I am under the impression that the late JPII was a great believer in Medjugorje.
My spiritual director and several priest I know have been there and have reported many positive supernatural and spiritual experiences.

Can someone clarify for me?


#4

My understanding (and I speak under correction from those with real knowledge) is that the Church never gives full formal approval to reports of apparitions. That is, there will never be a formal statement from Mother Church to the effect that a given apparition is proven to be geniune.

At most there will be a statement that “nothing contrary to the Faith is being taught here” and/or that there is no evidence of fraud or diabolic deception.

If this is the case, then to say “the Church hasn’t apporved” is not necessarily evidence against the reality ot an apparition. Has the Church condemned the reports?

Also, we know that when God acts, Satan tries to prevent His action from bearing fruit. Any genuine apparition sent by God will be subjected to attack from the Evil One - and his attacks take the form of deception, becuase he is a liar and the father of lies.


#5

I am under the understanding that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Divine Faith, at the Vatican, is presently working on a new document that helps the faithful clarify true vs. false revelations.

For now, we have this: 1978 Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith document on apparition discernment (unoffical English translation)
theotokos.org.uk/pages/appdisce/cdftexte.html

Also, I understand that a visionary can still have messages and still be condemned while still having them. One example is Vassula Ryden, who is condemned, but still receives messages. Disseminating the messages of Vassula Ryden is a sin. The same thing applies to other disapproved apparitions, like Medjugorje.

There is presently no ban on spreading messages of visionaries in the last “neutral” or “not ruled upon” category, as long as their material does not contradict any Infallible dogmas, faith, or morals.

Basically there are three different categories: Condemned absolutely (like Bayside), Unapproved (Vassula Ryden), and No ruling or neutral. Medjugorie lies, it seems, in a funny sort of fourth category, between that of Absolutely condemned and Unapproved. Therefore, I steer clear of it. I would say that if it’s a sin to spread the messages of Ryden, then it’s definitely a sin to spread the messages of the Gospa. If the ruling ever changes, then the Bishops will let us know.

This may also help:

This booklet was written by the Bishop of Mostar. It should better answer your question:
CRITERIA FOR DISCERNING APPARITIONS: REGARDING THE EVENTS OF MEDJUGORJE - Part 1
theotokos.org.uk/pages/unapprov/medjugor/bpperic1.html
CRITERIA FOR DISCERNING APPARITIONS: REGARDING THE EVENTS OF MEDJUGORJE - Part 2
theotokos.org.uk/pages/unapprov/medjugor/bpperic2.html

With regards to the second comment, that Pope John Paul II supported Medjugorje, let me quote you what Pope Benedict XVI said on the subject (my source is from the Feb 2004 document provided by Bishop Ratko Peric. It’s linked in my first post):

22 July 1998: “The only thing I can say regarding statements on Medjugorje ascribed to the Holy Father and myself is that they are complete invention” - frei erfunden - (O. P., p. 283). Cardinal Ratzinger. POPE BENEDICT XVI

I hope this helps.

God Bless you in your search for Truth.

And to the site administrators: I do not plan on posting ANY messages from “The Gospa.” I am merely trying to help the Bishop of Mostar enforce Church Law, and am helping him to spread the Truth, even if it’s unpleasant for the faithful to hear. I appreciate your allowing me to spread this information.

So please, to others … DO NOT post messages from The Gospa. This is a thread concerning obedience to ecclesiastical authority.


#6

My understanding (and I speak under correction from those with real knowledge) is that the Church never gives full formal approval to reports of apparitions. That is, there will never be a formal statement from Mother Church to the effect that a given apparition is proven to be geniune.

This is true. It’s usually ruled as being of supernatural origin or not, and if there is anything contrary to faith or morals being taught or promoted. Please read the documents I linked, especially the ones by Bishop Peric. One thing being taught by Medjugorje is DISOBEDIENCE and more subtlety, RELATIVISM.

If the visionaries were valid, they would’ve obeyed the Bishop years ago. He told them no official pilgramages, no public messages, etc, etc. They disobeyed, repeatedly. This is contrary to morals.

Implicitly, the “Gospa” is teaching Relativism, the idea that “Truth” is decided on an individual basis, that the source of Truth is no longer God through the Church (i.e. the Magesterium consisting of Popes, Bishops, and Priests in union). Look at all this Relativism! No one even regards the official statements of the Bishops or the three Church commissions. To Medjugorje fans, these decrees are secondary to the decree of their own conscience. Relativism is basically the idea that Good and Evil are products of our own point of view, our own minds, individually. Relativists decide what is good and evil for themselves, in essence, making themselves God.

Now, “The Gospa” is implicitly teaching Relativism through the messages themselves and through the bad example of the disobedient visionaries, who hold the teachings of “The Gospa” above the teachings of the Church. This is contrary to faith.

These are the reasons Medjugorje is disapproved.

When Our Lord, Jesus Christ, Ascended into Heaven, He sent the Holy Spirit, the Advocate, to the Apostles at Pentecost. After they received “The Helper” (who would teach us about God until the End of Time), they set out to spread the teachings of the Church. The truth is written in our hearts, yes, but it is clearly defined and taught to us by the Holy Spirit through the successors to the Apostles: our Bishops and Priests. Truth is written in the teachings of Christ’s church, and its ministers are present to protect us, to be our rocks, to help protect us from being misled and deceived, and to eventually help us achieve salvation.

Why aren’t we listening to them in this matter? The have spoken loud and clear. I urge all of you to please, read the material I’ve provided. These people are here to protect you. They are your shepherds.

I believe “The Gospa” is slowly breaking the bonds of the faithful to the real Holy Spirit, replacing it. The people, guided by their own personal sense of truth, are now attempting to force the Church to do the will of the “visionaries and Gospa,” not the Will of God. People are now seeking Truth apart from the real Holy Spirit, and are treading into dangerous spiritual territory. I really fear for them, for the worst fruits of Medjugorje are actually very subtle.

Anyway, please read through the links I’ve provided.


#7

How very confusing.

If the church disapproves of Medjugorje it certainly is not doing a good job of letting the faithful know about it. Few catholics around the world get around to reading the letters of Bosnian Bishops and in the meantime thousands of pilgrimages, services,radio and television features are organised by well meaning faithful (often clergy). My confessor reports many anecdotes of beautiful supernatural events (usually involving promotion of devotion to the Divine Mercy) and conversions associated with Medjugorje. Surely if this is a deception by the devil these things would not happen. :confused:


#8

[quote=wOoKiE]How very confusing.

If the church disapproves of Medjugorje it certainly is not doing a good job of letting the faithful know about it. Few catholics around the world get around to reading the letters of Bosnian Bishops and in the meantime thousands of pilgrimages, services,radio and television features are organised by well meaning faithful (often clergy). My confessor reports many anecdotes of beautiful supernatural events (usually involving promotion of devotion to the Divine Mercy) and conversions associated with Medjugorje. Surely if this is a deception by the devil these things would not happen. :confused:
[/quote]

yes, very confusing. I’m on the fence on this issue. I am going next week with my mom to Alabama where one of the visionaries will be. (mom offered to pay for me to go, and I’ve always wanted to see Alabama…) My mom went last year and had a very spiritual experience. I guess I’m just going along for the ride. I figure that even if the visions aren’t real, there will still be spiritual benefits with everybody praying together.


#9

The thread is closed due to breaking the forum rule regarding discussion of an an unapproved apparition.
Please see this:

forums.catholic.com/showthre…ight=Medjugorje


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